Re: [apnic-talk] AMM IG Discussion Comments

    • To: Andy Linton <asjl at lpnz dot org>
    • Subject: Re: [apnic-talk] AMM IG Discussion Comments
    • From: Skeeve Stevens <skeeve at eintellegonetworks dot com>
    • Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 17:12:18 +1100
    • Cc: "apnic-talk at apnic dot net" <apnic-talk at apnic dot net>
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      • Andy,

        I too am keen to know, as I've said.  But not because I think the money could be better spent elsewhere, but because I'd like to see just how much of a contribution that APNIC has made to IG, and it would be good to know what other RIRs have put in as well to compare.

        Do you see the technical development in the region suffering or not being addressed some how? 

        I personally think that APNIC should do LESS IPv6 Training in developed countries and should concentrate on Least Developed locations who actually need the help, not places like Australia, NZ, Japan, etc which have more than enough resources to look after themselves, and frequently prove that they do.

        Especially in countries with their own NIR's which are fully capable of performing these duties and have their own revenue models.

        And why do you think membership fees are too high?  APNIC just recently reduced the initial fee. and Developing nations already receive a significant discount on these fees to join.

        I am wondering if you are an argument looking for a problem, or if you actually have some specific concerns you are wanting addressed?


        Skeeve Stevens - eintellego Networks Pty Ltd
        The Experts Who The Experts Call
        Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering

        On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 5:00 PM, Andy Linton <asjl at lpnz dot org> wrote:
        I still keen to understand the cost of APNIC taking part in these activities. I'm keen to know because I think that this money could be spent better elsewhere in the region and on technical development and perhaps in reducing the cost of membership so that more people can afford to get address space.

        I have no hidden agenda on this.

        On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Andy Linton <asjl at lpnz dot org> wrote:

        On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Tony Smith <tony at apnic dot net> wrote:
        > Hi Andy,
        > There is no specific cost centre of "Internet governance activities" in
        > APNIC. However, Paul provided a list of the activities which may be
        > related to Internet governance - I have listed those below this message.
        > The budget for the Secretariat is developed in consultation with the APNIC
        > EC each year, and approved by the EC before being presented to members.
        > The EC are regularly updated throughout the year on the current budget
        > status, including expenditure and income, to ensure they are fully
        > informed.

        So the answer here is either "we have no idea how much this all costs" or "we have an idea and we don't want to tell you" or "we have such a wide remit from the EC, we don't care".

        In the AMM meeting, the APNIC Treasurer said:

        >>James Spenceley:  One of the things we can do is certainly understand the extent of our investment in this.  We can work with finance on that.  In terms of creating a moratorium, I think that is possibly one step too far, but as treasurer I would like to understand exactly the investment we are making in this space and the materiality of that and continue on discussing it.

        and then later in the discussion:

        >>Andy Linton:  James, you said the moratorium is a step too far, and perhaps you are right.  But perhaps one of the  things that could be done here, if we are going to talk to membership, would be to say, as part of the accounts would be to break out the true cost of doing the Internet governance activities and also try and provide some real measurement of the real benefits it brings to this community.  I am not convinced, and I am sensing a number of other people are not convinced, that the amount of resource we spend on it actually brings us the benefits that we claim or are claimed for it. Thank you.

        >>James Spenceley:  I take that on board.

        So I'm going to ask again - can we see the numbers? Are we talking $500,000, $1m, $2m?

        Even a low estimate would be good. Over the last twelve months, take a look at:

        e.g. Paul, Pablo and Adam's travel and accommodation
        A component for their salaries for the IG work
        The cost of back filling this time - if they're doing this IG work then other activities go by the board e.g. Sanjaya was recently promoted to Deputy DG
        The cost of external parties funded to do IG work

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