Re: [sig-policy] prop-130-v002: Secretariat impact assessment

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  • Subject: Re: [sig-policy] prop-130-v002: Secretariat impact assessment
  • From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
  • Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2020 15:25:15 +1100
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  • Thread-topic: [sig-policy] prop-130-v002: Secretariat impact assessment
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    • Dear Satoru,
      
      Thanks a lot for your inputs!
      
      Responding below, in-line.
      
      Regards,
      Jordi
      @jordipalet
       
       
      
      El 17/2/20 15:22, "Tsurumaki, Satoru" <sig-policy-bounces@lists.apnic.net en nombre de stsuruma@bbix.net> escribió:
      
          Dear Colleagues,
          
          I am Satoru Tsurumaki from Japan Open Policy Forum.
          
          I would like to share key feedback in our community for prop-130,
          based on a meeting we organised on 4th Feb to discuss these proposals.
          
          Many opposing opinions were expressed about this proposal.
          Especially, our community think it is necessary to consider and
          discuss more about inter-RIR IPv6 transfer.
          
          (comment details)
           - I don't imagine the reason why we need to change the policy.
      
      [Jordi] There are many reasons, such as making sure if the existing policy refers to only a "full" M&A, or partial ones, also if a company re-organization is included in that case or a relocation of a company from one region to another. It doesn't make sense that we allow IPv4 inter-RIR transfer and then we "prohibit" a company for moving from one region to another (for example) with their own resources.
      
           - In the current policy text, the text about IPv6 describes
          restrictions of IPv6 transfer, and it is different from the text of AS
          and IPv4. Therefore, the text of IPv6 and text of IPv4/ASN should not
          be the same if we unify these sentences.
      
      [Jordi] I don't fully understand this point. The actual policy for IPv4 transfer's is only for IPv4, not for IPv6. However, the M&A cases are the same. It is not logic, if we allow inter-RIR IPv4 transfers that we don't support inter-RIR M&A cases for IPv4 and in that case, it doesn't make sense that a company, for example, relocating from one region to another (see my previous response to Adam) is able to keep their IPv4 resources, but need to renumber the IPv6 ones.
      
           - It should be clearly discussed that the transfer of Inter-RIR IPv6
          will affect the principle of aggregation of IPv6 routes.
      
      [Jordi] We have discussed this already in the previous policy SIG. Policies doesn't mandate that all the IPv6 space allocated or assigned to a resource holder is announced as a single aggregated. Clearly, I'm for that goal, but "ideally". So, as a consequence, the impact of a small number of M&A cases is not a big issue compared with operators that, even if we don't like it, will break their prefix in smaller ones.
          
          Regards,
          Satoru Tsurumaki / JPOPF Steering Team
          
          2020年2月14日(金) 14:46 Srinivas Chendi <sunny@apnic.net>:
          >
          > Dear SIG members,
          >
          > Here is the Secretariat impact assessment for proposal “prop-130-v002:
          > Modification of transfer policies” and the same is also published at:
          >
          >      https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/proposals/prop-130/
          >
          > Staff comments
          > --------------
          >
          > Possible difficulties in verifying mergers, acquisition, reorganization,
          > or relocation from out of APNIC region due to unfamiliarity of languages
          > and legal systems.
          >
          > The NRO comparative policy matrix indicates APNIC Members outside of the
          > region must have network presence in the Asia Pacific. Additionally,
          > some RIRs have an ‘out of region’ policy which restricts where they can
          > use their resources.
          >
          > Members may face difficulties updating their domain objects if there has
          > been a partial IPv6 transfer where a larger block has been de-aggregated.
          >
          >
          > Technical comments
          > ------------------
          >
          > APNIC’s current systems are not configured to handle inter-RIR IPv6
          > reverse DNS. This will need to be developed.
          >
          > APNIC cannot predict when other RIRs will support IPv6 reverse DNS
          > fragments incoming to their systems.
          >
          >
          > Legal comments
          > --------------
          >
          > This will affect how APNIC verifies M&A documents. May require cross RIR
          > coordination.
          >
          >
          > Implementation
          > --------------
          >
          > 6 months
          >
          >
          > Regards
          > Sunny
          >
          >
          > On 20/01/2020 10:16 am, Bertrand Cherrier wrote:
          > > Dear SIG members,
          > >
          > > A new version of the proposal "prop-130: Modification of transfer policies"
          > > has been sent to the Policy SIG for review.
          > >
          > > It will be presented during the Open Policy Meeting at APNIC 49 in
          > > Melbourne,
          > > Australia on Thursday, 20 February 2020.
          > >
          > > We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list
          > > before the meeting.
          > >
          > > The comment period on the mailing list before an APNIC meeting is an
          > > important part of the policy development process. We encourage you to
          > > express your views on the proposal:
          > >
          > >   * Do you support or oppose this proposal?
          > >   * Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, tell
          > >     the community about your situation.
          > >   * Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal?
          > >   * Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear?
          > >   * What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective?
          > >
          > > Information about this proposal is available at:
          > > http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-130
          > >
          > > Regards
          > >
          > > Sumon, Bertrand, Ching-Heng
          > > APNIC Policy SIG Chairs
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > >
          > > prop-130-v002: Modification of transfer policies
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Proposer: Jordi Palet Martinez
          > > jordi.palet@theipv6company.com <mailto:jordi.palet@theipv6company.com>
          > >
          > >
          > >     1. Problem statement
          > >
          > > Existing transfer policies for IPv4, IPv6 and ASN resources have some
          > > differences
          > > among what is allowed and what not, if in the case of intra-RIR and
          > > inter-RIR, and
          > > it is not clear if in case of merger and acquisitions it is referring to
          > > a complete
          > > company, part of it, or even if in case of a company reorganization or
          > > relocation,
          > > the policy is supportive to that case.
          > >
          > > In the case of inter-RIR, the counterpart RIR need to have a reciprocal
          > > policy or
          > > procedure that allows it.
          > >
          > >
          > >     2. Objective of policy change
          > >
          > > To ensure that the policy text is clarified, if those cases are
          > > supported by the
          > > community. It will also facilitate companies or business units, moving
          > > or being established
          > > in other regions.
          > >
          > >
          > >     3. Situation in other regions
          > >
          > > There is a variety of support of all those cases in different regions.
          > > The one more open is
          > > RIPE, followed by ARIN. Similar policy proposals are being submitted in
          > > LACNIC and AFRINIC.
          > >
          > >
          > >     4. Proposed policy solution
          > >
          > > Actual Text
          > > 8.4. Mergers & acquisitions
          > >
          > > APNIC will process and record the transfer of IPv4 resources as the
          > > result of merger or acquisition.
          > >
          > > 11.0. Transfer of IPv6 resources
          > >
          > > APNIC will only recognize the transfer or IPv6 addresses as the result
          > > of Merger & Acquisition activity.
          > > The following conditions and consequences apply.
          > >
          > > 13.3. Mergers & acquisitions
          > >
          > > APNIC will recognize the transfer of ASNs as the result of merger or
          > > acquisition.
          > >
          > > Proposed Text
          > > 8.4. Mergers, acquisitions and relocations
          > >
          > > APNIC will process and record the transfer of IPv4 resources as the
          > > result of a partial or complete merger,
          > > acquisition, reorganization or relocation, in both cases, intra-RIR and
          > > inter-RIR.
          > >
          > > In the case of inter-RIR, the counterpart RIR need to have a reciprocal
          > > policy/procedure that allows it.
          > >
          > > 11.0. Transfer of IPv6 resources
          > >
          > > APNIC will only recognize the transfer or IPv6 addresses as the result
          > > of a partial or complete merger,
          > > acquisition, reorganization or relocation activity, in both cases,
          > > intra-RIR and inter-RIR. The following
          > > conditions and consequences apply.
          > >
          > > In the case of inter-RIR, the counterpart RIR need to have a reciprocal
          > > policy/procedure that allows it.
          > >
          > > 13.3. Mergers, acquisitions and relocations
          > >
          > > APNIC will recognize the transfer of ASNs as the result of a partial or
          > > complete merger, acquisition,
          > > reorganization or relocation activity, in both cases, intra-RIR and
          > > inter-RIR.
          > >
          > > In the case of inter-RIR, the counterpart RIR need to have a reciprocal
          > > policy/procedure that allows it.
          > >
          > >
          > >     5. Advantages / Disadvantages
          > >
          > > Advantages:
          > > Fulfilling the objectives above indicated.
          > >
          > > Disadvantages:
          > > It could be considered that it can create further dis-aggregation,
          > > especially in IPv6, however, those cases
          > > are rare and only happening from time to time, so the impact is
          > > negligible, and justified by the documentation
          > > provided to the secretariat.
          > >
          > >
          > >     6. Impact on resource holders
          > >
          > > None.
          > >
          > >
          > >     7. References
          > >
          > > https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-682
          > > https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#eight2
          > >
          > > Cordialement,
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > >
          > > Bertrand Cherrier
          > > Micro Logic Systems
          > > https://www.mls.nc
          > > Tél : +687 24 99 24
          > > VoIP : 65 24 99 24
          > > SAV : +687 36 67 76 (58F/min)
          > >
          > >
          > > *              sig-policy:  APNIC SIG on resource management policy           *
          > > _______________________________________________
          > > sig-policy mailing list
          > > sig-policy@lists.apnic.net
          > > https://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/sig-policy
          > >
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          -- 
          --
          Satoru Tsurumaki
          BBIX, Inc
          *              sig-policy:  APNIC SIG on resource management policy           *
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