Dear all,I can tell you my real experience with APNIC, when I want to transfer my unused IP ranges to a Singapore based ISP from my account, they deny it!! That is ridiculous! They said I cannot transfer! I cannot believe it if the IP address I owned but I cannot transfer it to a new owner.Can anyone tell me who has the same experience?Ernest Tse
Sent from Mobile* sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy *Hi,The justification for the needs was/is great to have in place to protect a free pool of scarce resources.Maintaining a correct registry, with the proper information is one of the core responsibilities of the RIRs, and as a community we must develop policies that allows the RIR to do that job in the most easy and convenient manner, no need would enable that for APNIIC, their time can then be spent on other things.Unused resources, ideally should be returned to the free pool, but that almost never happen voluntarily, they will instead be transferred, or even simply assigned or sub-allocated, no real big difference here, just different values in the Database and different real world contracts, some Database editing you can do yourself, others you need to ask your RIR for assistance.Resources that get transferred are not issued by the RIR from their free pool, they are already out there, I do not see any positive impact if APNIC rejects a transfer because the recipient cannot justify the whole prefix to be transferred.It will not increase the free pool available at APNIC.
It may as well cancel the whole transfer.
If initially rejected and further information is needed, it delays what is a very sensitive process, where both the offering and receiving party wants the whole process rounded up as fast as possible.RIPE region has had the "no need policy" in place for years, I don't believe any sign of massive hoarding for speculative purpose is visible over there (Multiple membership process gets abused, but that is another issue altogether).
Large transfers were made, and you do not need to have access to any stats to know those organisations needed that space, justifying large allocations can be extremely time consuming and ultimately detrimental to the overall LIR's business.David Hilario
IP Manager
Larus Cloud Service Limited
p: +852 29888918 m: +359 89 764 1784
f: +852 29888068
a: Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
w: laruscloudservice.net/uk
e: d.hilario at laruscloudservice dot netOn 25 February 2017 at 02:03, Owen DeLong <owen at delong dot com> wrote:I disagree…I believe that needs testing still preserves the idea of distributing addresses to those with need even in a post-exhaustion world.This serves to discourage speculative transactions and other transfers to those not actually needing addresses which would only drive prices up and not provide any benefit to the community.OwenOn Feb 24, 2017, at 08:32 , Pacswitch Email <ernest.tse at pacswitch dot com> wrote:* sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy *Hello all,I agreed that APNIC should accept all transfer without question because IP resource could be count into a assets to the IP holder in accounting. That's mean the ip holder have the right to request transfer to or from other APNIC members or other RIR.Ernest Tse
Sent from MobileHi Aftab,This is only to simplify things, need based policies are there to protect the free pool from exhaustion and ensure fair distribution.Space that is already out there can already be transferred without much hassle, removing the need base justification just simplifies the whole process, making the transfer faster and smoother.David Hilario
IP Manager
Larus Cloud Service Limited
p: +852 29888918 m: +359 89 764 1784
f: +852 29888068
a: Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
w: laruscloudservice.net/uk
e: d.hilario at laruscloudservice dot netOn 22 February 2017 at 10:04, Aftab Siddiqui <aftab.siddiqui at gmail dot com> wrote:Thanks Guangliang for the update.Hi David, what are we trying to fix?On Wed, 22 Feb 2017 at 14:13 Guangliang Pan <gpan at apnic dot net> wrote:Hi Aftab,
We don't have a case that rejected because the recipient could not demonstrate need. However, during the evaluation process, APNIC Hostmasters often ask for more support documents before approve large transfers.
Kind regards,
Guangliang
==========
From: Aftab Siddiqui [mailto:aftab.siddiqui at gmail dot com]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 February 2017 12:23 AM
To: David Hilario; Guangliang Pan
Cc: sig-policy at apnic dot net
Subject: Re: [sig-policy] prop-118-v001: No need policy in APNIC region
Hi Guangliang,
Do you have any stats on rejection rate due to weak requirement justifications?
On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 at 18:34 David Hilario <d.hilario at laruscloudservice dot net> wrote:
Dear Benny,
Thank you for asking for clarifications.
This proposal is for any transfer, within in or out of region.
The need based part is only needed to match any registry requiring a need based justification, this can be another RIR or even an NIR.
David Hilario
IP Manager
Larus Cloud Service Limited
p: +852 29888918 m: +359 89 764 1784
f: +852 29888068
a: Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
w: laruscloudservice.net/uk
e: d.hilario at laruscloudservice dot net
On 21 February 2017 at 05:38, Guangliang Pan <gpan at apnic dot net> wrote:
Dear David,
From implementation point of view, I would like to double check if the following proposal will also apply to transfers within the APNIC region.
- APNIC shall accept all transfers of Internet number resources to its
service region, provided that they comply with the policies relating
to transfers within its service region.
Best regards,
Guangliang Pan (Benny)
Registration Services Manager, APNIC
Email: gpan at apnic dot net
SIP: gpan at voip dot apnic dot net
Phone: +61 7 3858 3188
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From: sig-policy-bounces at lists dot apnic dot net [mailto:sig-policy-bounces at lists dot apnic dot net] On Behalf Of David Hilario
Sent: Friday, 17 February 2017 12:17 AM
To: sig-policy at apnic dot net
Subject: Re: [sig-policy] prop-118-v001: No need policy in APNIC region
Dear list,
We are only a few days away from the meeting in Saigon.
There has been no opposition to the policy, but only very little support as well.
As the proposer of this policy I would like to know if there is interest in streamlining the policy a bit in order to make transfers between two regions more compatible, it is really more of a small patch the way I see it.
Any opposition to it is very much welcome too, only the "positive" sides were really investigated and I would gladly hear any opposition to it as well as any support.
David Hilario
IP Manager
Larus Cloud Service Limited
p: +852 29888918 m: +359 89 764 1784
f: +852 29888068
a: Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR
w: laruscloudservice.net/uk
e: d.hilario at laruscloudservice dot net
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Best Wishes,
Aftab A. Siddiqui
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