Re: [sig-policy] [New Policy Proposal] prop-114: Modification in the ASN
is required in order to be a fully fledged member of the PI utilising
community.
You're also claiming that an ASN isn't an operational element anymore,
that it's more like a license to be able to use PI space to it's
fullest extend.
If it is true, then the only sensible way forward is to allocate them
as you become a community member.
So we're back to "Become an APNIC member, get an ASN"
Is that really what people are saying and is it really a sensible thing here?
--
Dean Pemberton
Technical Policy Advisor
InternetNZ
+64 21 920 363 (mob)
dean at internetnz dot net dot nz
To promote the Internet's benefits and uses, and protect its potential.
On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 10:08 AM, David Farmer <farmer at umn dot edu> wrote:
> On 2/27/15 17:41 , Dean Pemberton wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 8:03 AM, David Farmer <farmer at umn dot edu> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Don't allocated one if they don't want one. But if they want one, and
>>> they
>>> already have PI, or getting new PI, then why say no? And its not
>>> regardless
>>> of need, more accurately in anticipation of future need.
>>>
>>
>> Nope - you almost had me, but now you've lost me again, well done.
>
>
> Sorry, let me try one more time.
>
>> What you are suggesting *IS* regardless of need, and thats what I
>> think people are missing.
>> If you are not required to demonstrate need to get something, then it
>> is allocated regardless of need.
>> I realise this might seem semantic, but policy is all about semantics.
>
>
> On this we agree.
>
>> This 'anticipation of future need' stuff is at best ethereal and at
>> worst a fallacy. Lets not forget that there is an almost zero barrier
>> to entry with regard to ASN allocation should the member require one.
>> I just don't subscribe to this "I may one day require one so give it
>> to me now"
>
>
> If you only look at it through the lens of the current multi-homing
> requirement for an ASN then you don't need it, it is totally anticipatory
> and only a future need, but that is self-fulfilling. I'm suggesting that
> multi-homing is too narrow of a definition of need for an ASN. The PI
> assignment and what every justified that should also equally justify the
> need for ASN assignment. The PI assignment was intended to be portable,
> also assigning an ASN simply is intended to facilitate that portability.
> I'm saying that the need for portability is also a need for an ASN, if you
> look beyond multi-homing.
>
>> It's the same as saying "I don't require an IPv6 allocation today, but
>> I anticipate that at some point I'll need a /10. Just give it all to
>> me now so that I don't have to make difficult design decisions later."
>>
>> If everyone gets one then I can live with that. What I can't live
>> with is opening up a can of worms with a "I might one day need
>> something so please allocate it now". It's a dangerous slippery
>> slope. Today ASNs, Tomorrow IPv4, next day IPv6.
>
>
> It's not that I only might need it, in my opinion it is fundamentally
> necessary to fulfill the portability of the PI assignment. No need to move
> the assignment within the routing system, no need for portability and no
> need for an ASN. But, if you make a PI assignment without allowing me an
> ASN you've limited its portability and the useability for its intended
> purpose. Making a PI assignment implies to me, it can be picked up and
> moved within the routing system, assigning an ASN is needed to facilitate
> that movement.
>
> However, looked at through the lens of multi-homing, portability itself is
> only a future need. You have to look beyond multi-homing, not abandon the
> idea of need, to understand what I'm trying say.
>
> But, I probably only dug the whole deeper. :) So, I'll stop now.
>
>
> --
> ================================================
> David Farmer Email: farmer at umn dot edu
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 1-612-626-0815
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 1-612-812-9952
> ================================================