[GLOBAL-V6] Re: IPv6 Research/Not-for-profit Addressing

  • To: Sparc <sparc at inbox dot com>
  • Subject: [GLOBAL-V6] Re: IPv6 Research/Not-for-profit Addressing
  • From: Jeroen Massar <jeroen at unfix dot org>
  • Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 01:58:25 +0100
  • Cc: ipv6 at ietf dot org, global-v6 at lists dot apnic dot net, Christopher Martin <outsidefactor at iinet dot net dot au>
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    • [replies to Sparc, Aaron Kaplan & C. Martin]
      
      Sparc wrote:
      [..]
      > In our case, I am not sure if there is any local-ISP that possesses
      > IPv6 address space already.
      
      You said Philipines, thus check here:
      http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/dfp/all/?country=ph
      Other countries are also there of course.
      
      Aaron Kaplan wrote:
      > Let me maybe try to clarify Christopher Martin's point a bit.
      > I recently went through a similar situation and fortunately our
      > community network achieved AS status. We are a meshed wireless
      > network in Vienna, Austria (http://funkfeuer.at). BUT we would
      > not have been able to do it without some help / intervention of
      > a friendly ISP. The barriers have in practice become to big for
      > community projects to become part of the regular internet.
      
      The trick here is that you need address space. Address space is
      something you can get from LIR's and RIR's, depending on the amount
      and for what reason you want to get it. Most likely for a community
      network you already will be happy enough with a /48, thus go to your
      friendly LIR and get that /48. Done Presto.
      
      Otherwise, make a solid case for 200 customers, become LIR, pay the
      bills and get that prefix. (~2000 EUR / 200 cust = 10 EUR/cust/year)
      That ain't that pricy to my eyes.
      
      
      I am also aware of a couple of wireless networks and other experimental
      networks using a SixXS tunnel and subnet. All that address space is also
      free to get. The only thing is that you don't have "Routing
      Independence" and the thing that many want: "Provider Independence"...
      
      
      Christopher Martin wrote:
      [..]
      > We are not like a start-up company. We have no seed funding, we have
      > no investors. Now, if a generous benefactor offered us enough funding
      > to get two years APNIC membership then we could get the addresses,
      > build the network and grow the membership base, but this has not
      > happened as yet.
      
      RIR's are not there to help you start your organization/company/etc.
      That is business 101, which is done somewhere else.
      
      IMHO 'experimental' allocations should also not be used for those
      setups. But there are then I guess little to no cases left where those
      prefix really can be used.
      
      [..]
      > * be an equal with any other, whether they can afford membership
      >   of an RIR or not
      > * be independent of a service provider so that you can move if
      >   they make your position untenable
      > * share whatever services they want, how they want
      > * have access to new technologies as they are developed, not
      >   whenever the ISPs deign to give them to us.
      
      In other words "a company which does what ISP's do but for free" and
      without the SLA's. That is thus direct competition to them.
      
      > People would not even bother with community networks if there wasn't
      > a clear and obvious need for them.
      
      The need is that people don't want to pay. Your job to do: start a cheap
      ISP that works correctly and gives that feature set. You have set it
      already yourself "people need these things" (listed above), well found
      your ISP around it and get those people in your group. But then your
      group doesn't have time to do a new technology, as they have a business
      to run and suddenly you are just exactly the same as every other
      company, though you had the intention at one point.
      
      Not cracking you down, but that is unfortunately the way it is.
      
      Greets,
       Jeroen
      
      
      

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