[GLOBAL-V6] Re: IPv6 Research/Not-for-profit Addressing

  • To: "global-v6 at lists dot apnic dot net" <global-v6 at lists dot apnic dot net>, Christopher Martin <outsidefactor at iinet dot net dot au>
  • Subject: [GLOBAL-V6] Re: IPv6 Research/Not-for-profit Addressing
  • From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel dot es>
  • Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:09:15 +0100
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  • In-reply-to: <4ocm16$9j57v5 at iinet-mail.icp-qv1-irony2.iinet dot net dot au>
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  • Thread-topic: IPv6 Research/Not-for-profit Addressing
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    • 
      I understand your perception, but honestly speaking, I think is wrong (and
      just in case, I'm not employed or anything similar by APNIC or any other
      RIR).
      
      The first point is that you should not use anymore 6Bone. It is being pashed
      out, and some carriers are already filtering this prefix.
      
      There is not any entity which can provide ASNs and IP (v4/v6) addresses
      beside the RIRs, and I don't feel they are "commercial" entities.
      
      The RIRs just execute the community policy and decisions, and that means
      that they can't decide to donate an ASN or IP prefix, unless the community
      agree on that. I'm sure they will be happy to tell you how to submit a
      request for a policy for those cases or something similar, but you should
      convince the community, which I'm not so sure will be so easy for your case.
      
      I'm also sure that there is a way to get IPv6 space even if you don't want
      IPv4 one, but my advise is to run dual stack in the LANs and your
      "interface" with your upstream providers, if you want to ensure that older
      apps which aren't ported still work (typically behind a NAT).
      
      It will be much easier to calculate the cost of the IPv6 prefix and ASN and
      make it part of your fixed/recurrent costs which you should get back with
      the fixed cost that you are going to charge to the network users, as I guess
      you will do with any other infrastructure costs or recurrent fees.
      
      An alternative may be to convince you upstream provider to get the ASN and
      prefix for you, with the issue that if you have more than one, you will not
      have a provider independent space.
      
      Besides those considerations, I will be very happy to support your
      initiative if any technical skills are needed.
      
      Regards,
      Jordi
      
      
      
      
      > De: Christopher Martin <outsidefactor at iinet dot net dot au>
      > Responder a: <ipv6-bounces at ietf dot org>
      > Fecha: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:03:49 +1100
      > Para: <ipv6 at ietf dot org>
      > Asunto: IPv6 Research/Not-for-profit Addressing
      > 
      > I am heading up a project to construct a community wireless network covering
      > all areas of Australia that wish to participate, and we have reached the
      > conclusion that any effort spent creating a universally routable network
      > based on IPv4 is a doomed strategy.
      > 
      > The project is being supported by the Australian Wireless Association
      > (www.australianwireless.org), a not-for-profit member based organisation. At
      > this stage we have arranged agreements with two Australian ISPs to allow us
      > to interconnect with their IPv6 networks, one of which is 6bone connected.
      > We are very happy with this situation, and have secured the access without
      > any costs. We have also secured hardware to run as a border router to be
      > co-located in the ISP's facilities.
      > 
      > The next step is for us to acquire address space and an AS number so we can
      > use the interconnection, however this is where we have hit issues. Our local
      > IP addressing registrar, APNIC, is a purely commercial organisation and has
      > no interest in assisting us, refusing to even let us plead our case. Our
      > membership fees can cover the AU$1000 they charge for an AS number, but the
      > AU$5000 per year membership fee required to get any sort of addressing is
      > more than we can afford. The pricing structure of APNIC assumes you want
      > IPv4 addressing, which we do not, and they have no options for IPv6 only.
      > Given the vast unplumbed depths of IPv6 available this seems a little
      > unfair.
      > 
      > Is there address space made available for research purposes, or is there
      > space set aside for not-for-profit use? Is there a registrar set up for
      > research networks? We feel that we have something to offer the IPv6
      > community, by both providing users a broadband path directly to 6bone,
      > rather than through long distance tunnels, and as we plan to implement many
      > links as purely IPv6 it provides a potential demonstration of the next
      > generation of networks. It also will reveal any issues with IPv6 over
      > wireless.
      > 
      > The network will provide a fixed cost connectivity option for people who may
      > not be able to afford the costs of regular broadband internet access. It
      > also has a strong following amongst the enthusiast community, and provides a
      > genuine opportunity to test IPv6 in the wild in a large network with
      > potentially thousands of users. It will be a best effort system; with
      > efforts made to build a meshed structure to provide redundancy as we expect
      > the wireless links to fail regularly (wireless is an inherently less stable
      > technology when compared to traditional wired networks).
      > 
      > I hope someone in the IPv6 community has a suggestion or can help us.
      > 
      > Chris Martin
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