Re: [Ap-ipv6tf] [Members] FW: Have you seen this? Nortel selling Interne

  • To: Vint Cerf <vint at google dot com>, tony at keanyhill.wattle dot id dot au
  • Subject: Re: [Ap-ipv6tf] [Members] FW: Have you seen this? Nortel selling Internet addresses to Microsoft for $7.5 million
  • From: Paul Wilson <pwilson at apnic dot net>
  • Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:24:02 +1000
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    • Hi Vint,
      
      
      The NRO comparison document is intended to include all material differences in policy, so it should be there.
      
      
      I can say that under APNIC policies, there is no difference between legacy and other address space, for the purpose of transfers at least; they are treated equally, which is why you would not see any distinction mentioned in the document. It is always possible there is an omission of some pertinent detail from the summary, so if you become aware of any, please do let me know!
      
      Paul.
      
      
      
      
      --On 27 March 2011 7:11:40 PM -0400 Vint Cerf <vint at google dot com> wrote:
      
      
      Paul, is there a concise summary of differences in thinking about
      treatment of transfers? At issue is treatment og legacy address space. V
      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Paul Wilson [mailto:pwilson at apnic dot net]
      Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2011 07:07 PM
      To: Tony Hill <tony at keanyhill.wattle dot id dot au>; Vint Cerf <vint at google dot com>
      Cc: ap-ipv6tf at lists dot ap-ipv6tf dot org <ap-ipv6tf at lists dot ap-ipv6tf dot org>;
      nav6tf at ipv6forum dot com <nav6tf at ipv6forum dot com>; members at ipv6forum dot com
      <members at ipv6forum dot com>
      Subject: Re: [Ap-ipv6tf] [Members] FW: Have you seen this? Nortel selling
      Internet addresses to Microsoft for $7.5 million
      
      Hi Tony and Vint,
      
      There may be some merit in some global policy work in this area, but you
      may find that the answer which you are looking for already sufficiently
      covered by the regional policies.
      
      At the global level, the more important policy work to be done (in my
      opinion) is to achieve a consistent global framework for inter-RIR IPv4
      transfer.  At present this is stalled by regional differences in fairly
      fundamental interpretations and positions, which could go on indefinitely.
      
      While it goes on, we have not only the risks I described in my previous
      message (regarding the uneven global distribution of motivation for IPv6),
      
      but we are also leaving open a big window of opportunity for challenges to
      
      the whole system at an even more fundamental level.
      
      My opinions only.
      
      Paul.
      
      
      
      --On 28 March 2011 9:41:00 AM +1100 Tony Hill
      <tony at keanyhill.wattle dot id dot au>
      wrote:
      
      
      Hi Vint
      
      Many thanks for the clarification.  What is the quickest way to check
      
      and
      
      get this into RIR policy?
      
      I am not an IP (intellectual property) lawyer.  I will check whether the
      ISOC-AU friendly lawyers have a view and can provide any input.
      
      regards, Tony
      
      
      
      On 28/03/2011, at 9:20 AM, Vint Cerf wrote:
      
      
      Tony, I agree with you and if the terms and conditions for use are not
      explicit at each RIR, I wonder whether it is possible to have a policy
      development at each RIR that would ultimately result in a global
      policy to that effect (it, it is a right to use with a renewable
      license, not ownership).
      
      vint
      
      On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Tony Hill
      
      <tony at keanyhill.wattle dot id dot au>
      
      wrote:
      
      I have been involved in plenty of discussions around domain names on
      the same point.  A users right (in legal terms) to a domain name is a
      license for use, not ownership.
      
      I have always argued that the same situation should apply to IP
      addresses, ie it is a right to use, not ownership.
      
      But...
      
      I wonder if such provisions have ever been formally included in the
      allocation processes for domain names or addresses.  Sorry for my
      ignorance on this point.
      
      regards, Tony
      
      On 27/03/2011, at 10:17 PM, Latif LADID (The New Internet based on
      IPv6) wrote:
      
      
      Message loud and clear. Somebody should act on your words.
      
      __________________Latif
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Vint Cerf [mailto:vint at google dot com]
      Sent: 27 March 2011 13:11
      To: Latif LADID (The New Internet based on IPv6)
      Cc: members at ipv6forum dot com; nav6tf at ipv6forum dot com;
      ap-ipv6tf at lists dot ap-ipv6tf dot org
      Subject: Re: [Members] FW: Have you seen this? Nortel selling
      
      Internet
      
      addresses to Microsoft for $7.5 million
      
      treating IP addresses as property has many bad consequences (not the
      least, the temptation to fragment IPv4 blocks and sell them off -
      potentially inflating the v4 routing tables beyond operational
      capacity). At the very least, it seems important that all v4 and v6
      address space should be subject to RIR assignment rules so as to
      manage the space properly.
      
      v
      
      
      On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 3:50 AM, Latif LADID ("The New Internet based
      on IPv6") <latif at ladid dot lu> wrote:
      
      Comments?
      
      
      
      From: Yanick Pouffary (gmail) [mailto:yanick.pouffary at gmail dot com]
      Sent: 24 March 2011 14:50
      To: Latif LADID ("The New Internet based on IPv6")
      Subject: Have you seen this? Nortel selling Internet addresses to
      
      Microsoft
      
      for $7.5 million
      
      
      
      
      
      http://www.totaltele.com/printablearticle.aspx?ID=463504
      
      
      
      
      
      Nortel selling Internet addresses to Microsoft for $7.5 million
      
      
      
      By Peg Brickley, Dow Jones Daily Bankruptcy Review
      
      Wednesday 23 March 2011
      
      Canadian vendor selling assets in order to raise money for
      
      creditors.
      
      
      Nortel Networks Corp. is doing its bit to alleviate the Internet
      
      space
      
      crunch, selling 666,624 IP addresses to Microsoft Corp. for $7.5
      million.
      
      The Canadian telecommunications-equipment maker, which filed for
      
      bankruptcy
      
      protection in 2009, is selling assets to raise money for creditors.
      
      In
      
      court
      
      papers Monday, Nortel urged quick approval of the address sale to
      make the most of the opportunity to profit from its store of strings
      of numbers
      
      that
      
      identify particular devices hooked to the Internet: computers,
      Web-enabled phones, and other gadgets.
      
      Nortel's numbers date back to the 1990s and are dubbed "legacy
      numbers," a signal they predate the regional Internet registries
      
      that
      
      now control the supply of numbers. They are among the last of the
      IPv4 addresses, created
      
      in
      
      1981, and are in short supply.
      
      The opportunity to make money from strings of numbers arose when the
      first batch of IP addresses, the IPv4 numbers, sold out before the
      transition to the next batch, IPv6, is complete. The switch to the
      IPv6 standard, which promises an unlimited supply of Internet
      addresses, has been in the works for years but recently has picked
      
      up
      
      speed due to the dawning realization that the industry is running
      
      out
      
      of numbers.
      
      Nortel's plan is to sell Microsoft its numbers "on an 'as is' and
      'where
      
      is'
      
      basis, free and clear of all interests," according to a filing with
      the
      
      U.S.
      
      Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Del., one of the courts presiding
      over the company's breakup.
      
      The American Registry for Internet Numbers, one of five registries
      
      worldwide
      
      that maintains the database of numbers, does not view IP addresses
      
      as
      
      property that can be bought and sold. Policies allow transfers of
      
      addresses
      
      as long as the entity taking over the numbers has and maintains a
      network and can establish that they need them, said American
      
      Registry
      
      president
      
      and
      
      chief executive John Curran.
      
      "At the end of the day, we are managing these as a pool of resources
      for
      
      the
      
      internet community," Curran said."It's a duty of stewardship."
      
      A nonprofit organization, the American Registry adjusts its database
      to reflect transfers--and pays no heed to the dollars involved--as
      long as
      
      the
      
      participants play by the rules established by the Internet
      
      community,
      
      he said. Some organizations that received outsized allotments at the
      dawning
      
      of
      
      the Internet have returned them, recognizing the need to conserve a
      vital resource for the Internet community. Though the IPv6, has been
      in the
      
      works
      
      for years, stretching out the supply of old addresses, the IPv4
      batch, has bought vital time.
      
      "These numbers were provided free to organizations that wanted to be
      involved in the Internet," Curran said. "They were received simply
      for the asking."
      
      For decades, the idea of making a market in IP addresses ran up
      against
      
      the
      
      difficulty of getting people to pay for something they could get for
      free. Then came the space crunch, which happened officially on Feb.
      3, when the last of the original supply of some 4.3 billion
      
      addresses
      
      ran out.
      
      Along with the other registries, the American Registry received its
      final allotment of 16 million addresses to hand out. The registry is
      rationing
      
      the
      
      addresses, doling out only a three-month supply at a time, Curran
      said.
      
      How
      
      long they'll last depends on demand, he said.
      
      Nortel started looking for a buyer for its addresses last year and
      held an auction in January. Most of the numbers Microsoft is buying
      are "available for immediate use," but the rest are temporarily tied
      up in transition of Nortel operating businesses to their new owners,
      court papers say.
      
      Nortel has raised billions of dollars selling its operations. Word
      
      is
      
      still
      
      awaited on the sale plan for a portfolio of 4,000 patents. Included
      in the portfolio are Nortel's coveted patents for technology used in
      long-term evolution, or LTE, wireless phone networks.
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
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      ________________________________________________________________________
      Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC                      <dg at apnic dot net>
      http://www.apnic.net                                     +61 7 3858 3100
      
      
      
      
      ________________________________________________________________________
      Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC                      <dg at apnic dot net>
      http://www.apnic.net                                     +61 7 3858 3100