Re: [sig-policy] prop-046: IPv4 countdown policy proposal - returning to mailing list for development
OK. So "MULTI-NATIONAL ISP" sets up offshore, and that fulfills their IPv4 needs for a couple of months, and then what? I think a lot of people/RIRs/proposals/member's money are trying to work out how to provide a "soft landing" for the end of IPv4. Let's face it, there is an infinite need of a finite resource, this is not going to change no matter how much we fiddle with the edges. There will be no soft landing. Maybe all this debating of proposals will provide a tiny bit of extra time for a few companies/regions, but not much. This question may touch a bit close to home for some researchers on this list who spend their time travelling from conference to conference, but I often wonder why an elegant protocol transition solution which is a "no brainer" for service providers (the coal face of the IP industry) to implement hasn't been thought up a lot earlier than now. IPv4->IPv6 is NOT a "no brainer". If it were we would not be having this discussion. Real world: I asked one of Australasia's largest IP transit providers yesterday their plans for IPv6. The answer? "There is no requirement from business areas for IPv6." Double NAT here we come. Will we ever emerge? Tim.
----- Original Message ---- From: Philip Smith email@example.com To: Sebastian Bellagamba firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com Sent: Thursday, 27 September, 2007 11:44:55 PM Subject: Re: [sig-policy] prop-046: IPv4 countdown policy proposal - returning to mailing list for development
Sebastian Bellagamba said the following on 27/9/07 23:32:
I am not sure if I follow well the idea of potential RIR shopping. Let's say we have GLOBALISP Inc, based in some (North) American big city, with a huge operation in the US and Europe; GLOBALISP also have a really small operation in, for example, Argentina. Do you really think that GLOBALISP Argentina could justify a request for a /8? If they do, how do you imagine that RIR staff would handle that justification and approve the subsequent allocation?
GLOBALISP could put their next global request in through their Argentinian office. What is stopping them doing this at the moment? Does LACNIC have a policy which says that LIRs who are members of other RIRs cannot get address space apart from what is going to be used in the country of operation?
It's very possible. Let's not pretend it can't or won't happen. ;-)
On Sep 27, 2007, at 10:14 AM, Philip Smith wrote:
Just to add my contribution...
Izumi Okutani said the following on 27/9/07 22:30:
Encouraging investment in developing countries by large ISPs in developed countries?
:-) I understand your point, but I imagine a single /8 won't attract too many investors. It probably won't last for more than few months to meet their needs.
Well, the investors I can think of are those who will set up business (probably no more than a shell) in another RIR region just so they can get IPv4 address space for their business in the region which has no more IPv4 address space. Multinationals tend to have one RIR membership but network needs covering multiple RIR regions. So this isn't unusual.
I know quite a number of people are concerned about this point, so I'd be interested to hear more details on what people see as an issue.
I think a good start would be that each RIR region should document what should happen to the last /8. Then the process can be a "if you give us a /8 we have a policy which describes what we are going to do with it". It sounds a lot more realistic than the current "give us a /8 and we promise we'll use it for special needs only". We have not defined the latter in policy anywhere. And if no policy has been defined for this /8, the fall-back position would be the existing policies, which could easily see one LIR come and gobble up the whole lot in one swoop. Meaning we have spent all this effort for nothing.
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