Hi Anupam,
Thanks again for your comments.
Just firstly want to clarify that the role and IRT are two different whois objects with different purposes and we are not proposing to make them the same. You can read more about each object here:
https://www.apnic.net/manage-ip/using-whois/guide/role/
https://www.apnic.net/manage-ip/using-whois/guide/irt/
To accommodate the requirements in prop-125 to implement 'abuse-c', the role object was used to mirror the contact information published in the IRT object.
We will be presenting more details about the proposed change at APNIC 52 to gather wider community feedback and will also share an impact assessment outlining any system changes required (if any). However we believe this is a simple change and should not affect our current systems.
Regards,
_______________________________________________________
George Odagi
Senior Internet Resource & Policy Analyst, APNIC
e: helpdesk@apnic.net
p: +61 7 3858 3188
f: +61 7 3858 3199
www.apnic.net
_______________________________________________________
Join the conversation: https://blog.apnic.net/
From: Anupam Agrawal <anupamagrawal.in@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, 4 June 2021 at 4:30 am
To: George Odagi <godagi@apnic.net>
Cc: sig-policy@lists.apnic.net <sig-policy@lists.apnic.net>
Subject: RE: [sig-policy] APNIC Whois role object - Proposed changes
Dear George,
Once the proposed change is done, there will be no difference between the role object & irt object. Assuming, its okay with everyone to move head, is a dependency analysis available with you?
I mean by dependency analysis an exercise to confirm whether or not there is something else which is dependent on role object (being changed) and if there are dependents, whether or not there is an impact of the proposed change.
Regards
Anupam
Hi Anupam,
Thanks for your feedback.
The country information is already published in other whois attributes such as in the resource records and organization object when querying an IP address or AS number.
Regarding the phone number - once it becomes optional, there is no need to populate with '+000000000' if a phone number has not been published in the IRT object itself. Currently it is forced to include the number as the attribute is mandatory in the role object.
To give you an example of the issue at hand, please see example of IRT and abuse role objects below:
irt: IRT-APNICRANDNET-AU
address: PO Box 3646
address: South Brisbane, QLD 4101
address: Australia
e-mail: helpdesk@apnic.net
abuse-mailbox: helpdesk@apnic.net
admin-c: AR302-AP
tech-c: AR302-AP
auth: # Filtered
remarks: helpdesk@apnic.net was validated on 2021-02-09
mnt-by: MAINT-AU-APNIC-GM85-AP
last-modified: 2021-03-09T01:10:21Z
source: APNIC
role: ABUSE APNICRANDNETAU
address: PO Box 3646
address: South Brisbane, QLD 4101
address: Australia
country: ZZ
phone: +000000000
e-mail: helpdesk@apnic.net
admin-c: AR302-AP
tech-c: AR302-AP
nic-hdl: AA1412-AP
remarks: Generated from irt object IRT-APNICRANDNET-AU
abuse-mailbox: helpdesk@apnic.net
mnt-by: APNIC-ABUSE
last-modified: 2021-03-09T01:10:22Z
source: APNIC
Regards,
_______________________________________________________
George Odagi
Senior Internet Resource & Policy Analyst, APNIC
e: helpdesk@apnic.net
p: +61 7 3858 3188
f: +61 7 3858 3199
www.apnic.net
_______________________________________________________
Join the conversation: https://blog.apnic.net/
From: Anupam Agrawal <anupamagrawal.in@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 1 June 2021 at 11:13 pm
To: George Odagi <godagi@apnic.net>
Cc: sig-policy@lists.apnic.net <sig-policy@lists.apnic.net>
Subject: Re: [sig-policy] APNIC Whois role object - Proposed changes
Dear George,
Having the country information is definitely an advantage. If the phone number is made optional, then the issue of phone field getting populated with +00000000 will still be there if the phone number is not given.
Pardon my ignorance but the current APNIC model - it is causing an issue exactly where?
Regards
________________________________________________________
Anupam Agrawal | India Internet Foundation - Chair | 91 990 399 2838
In light of the recent discussion about abuse role objects that were created as a result of prop-125, we would like to share background information about this implementation and consult with the community.
APNIC acknowledges this is a known issue caused by a limitation in whois – which requires the phone number and country attributes to be mandatory in role objects. The abuse role objects are auto-generated from IRT objects, where the phone number attribute is optional and the country attribute which does not exist. This resulted in populating the phone number with '+000000000' in the event no phone number was provided in the IRT object and using the country 'ZZ' to indicate the country is unspecified in the IRT object.
The current whois versions in the RIPE NCC and AFRINIC do not include the country attribute and the phone number attribute is treated as optional in role objects - for example, see RIPE NCC's template below:
Attribute Name Presence Repeat Indexed
role: mandatory single lookup key
address: mandatory multiple
fax-no: optional multiple
e-mail: mandatory multiple lookup key
org: optional multiple inverse key
admin-c: optional multiple inverse key
tech-c: optional multiple inverse key
nic-hdl: mandatory single primary/lookup key
remarks: optional multiple
notify: optional multiple inverse key
abuse-mailbox: optional* multiple inverse key
mnt-by: mandatory multiple inverse key
created: generated single
last-modified: generated single
A potential solution would be to upgrade APNIC's whois code to duplicate these whois rules. Doing so would result in removing the country attribute from APNIC's role objects altogether, in addition to making the phone number attribute optional. This would ensure that information is accurately reflected in the IRT and abuse role objects.
We would like to hear your feedback or concerns about this proposed change. We plan to present more details during APNIC 52.
_______________________________________________________
Senior Internet Resource & Policy Analyst, APNIC
_______________________________________________________
* sig-policy: APNIC SIG on resource management policy *
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