Dear George,

Once the proposed change is done, there will be no difference between the role object & irt object. Assuming, its okay with everyone to move head, is a dependency analysis available with you?

I mean by dependency analysis an exercise to confirm whether or not there is something else which is dependent on role object (being changed) and if there are dependents, whether or not there is an impact of the proposed change.

Regards

Anupam

From: George Odagi
Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2021 8:30 AM
To: Anupam Agrawal
Cc: sig-policy@lists.apnic.net
Subject: Re: [sig-policy] APNIC Whois role object - Proposed changes

Hi Anupam,

Thanks for your feedback.

The country information is already published in other whois attributes such as in the resource records and organization object when querying an IP address or AS number.

Regarding the phone number - once it becomes optional, there is no need to populate with '+000000000' if a phone number has not been published in the IRT object itself. Currently it is forced to include the number as the attribute is mandatory in the role object.

To give you an example of the issue at hand, please see example of IRT and abuse role objects below:

irt: IRT-APNICRANDNET-AU

address: PO Box 3646

address: South Brisbane, QLD 4101

address: Australia

e-mail: helpdesk@apnic.net

abuse-mailbox: helpdesk@apnic.net

admin-c: AR302-AP

tech-c: AR302-AP

auth: # Filtered

remarks: helpdesk@apnic.net was validated on 2021-02-09

mnt-by: MAINT-AU-APNIC-GM85-AP

last-modified: 2021-03-09T01:10:21Z

source: APNIC

role: ABUSE APNICRANDNETAU

address: PO Box 3646

address: South Brisbane, QLD 4101

address: Australia

country: ZZ

phone: +000000000

e-mail: helpdesk@apnic.net

admin-c: AR302-AP

tech-c: AR302-AP

nic-hdl: AA1412-AP

remarks: Generated from irt object IRT-APNICRANDNET-AU

abuse-mailbox: helpdesk@apnic.net

mnt-by: APNIC-ABUSE

last-modified: 2021-03-09T01:10:22Z

source: APNIC

Regards,

_______________________________________________________

George Odagi

Senior Internet Resource & Policy Analyst, APNIC

e: helpdesk@apnic.net

p: +61 7 3858 3188

f: +61 7 3858 3199

www.apnic.net

_______________________________________________________

Join the conversation: https://blog.apnic.net/

From: Anupam Agrawal <anupamagrawal.in@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 1 June 2021 at 11:13 pm
To: George Odagi <godagi@apnic.net>
Cc: sig-policy@lists.apnic.net <sig-policy@lists.apnic.net>
Subject: Re: [sig-policy] APNIC Whois role object - Proposed changes

Dear George,

Having the country information is definitely an advantage. If the phone number is made optional, then the issue of phone field getting populated with +00000000 will still be there if the phone number is not given.

Pardon my ignorance but the current APNIC model - it is causing an issue exactly where?

Regards

________________________________________________________
Anupam Agrawal | India Internet Foundation - Chair | 91 990 399 2838

On 01-Jun-2021, at 10:23 AM, George Odagi <godagi@apnic.net> wrote:

Dear Community Members,

In light of the recent discussion about abuse role objects that were created as a result of prop-125, we would like to share background information about this implementation and consult with the community.

APNIC acknowledges this is a known issue caused by a limitation in whois – which requires the phone number and country attributes to be mandatory in role objects. The abuse role objects are auto-generated from IRT objects, where the phone number attribute is optional and the country attribute which does not exist. This resulted in populating the phone number with '+000000000' in the event no phone number was provided in the IRT object and using the country 'ZZ' to indicate the country is unspecified in the IRT object.

The current whois versions in the RIPE NCC and AFRINIC do not include the country attribute and the phone number attribute is treated as optional in role objects - for example, see RIPE NCC's template below:

Attribute Name Presence   Repeat     Indexed
role:           mandatory single     lookup key
address:        mandatory multiple
phone:          optional   multiple
fax-no:         optional   multiple
e-mail:         mandatory multiple   lookup key
org:            optional   multiple   inverse key
admin-c:        optional   multiple   inverse key
tech-c:         optional   multiple   inverse key
nic-hdl:        mandatory single     primary/lookup key
remarks:        optional   multiple
notify:         optional   multiple   inverse key
abuse-mailbox: optional* multiple   inverse key
mnt-by:         mandatory multiple   inverse key
created:        generated single
last-modified: generated single
source:         mandatory single

A potential solution would be to upgrade APNIC's whois code to duplicate these whois rules. Doing so would result in removing the country attribute from APNIC's role objects altogether, in addition to making the phone number attribute optional. This would ensure that information is accurately reflected in the IRT and abuse role objects.

We would like to hear your feedback or concerns about this proposed change. We plan to present more details during APNIC 52.

Regards,

_______________________________________________________
George Odagi
Senior Internet Resource & Policy Analyst, APNIC
e: helpdesk@apnic.net
p: +61 7 3858 3188
f: +61 7 3858 3199
www.apnic.net
_______________________________________________________
Join the conversation:   https://blog.apnic.net/
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