Orbit

Hi Aftab,

APNIC creates RPKI ROAs with origin AS0 for all undelegated address space (marked as “Available” and “Reserved” in the delegated-apnic-extended-latest stats file. It may be worth noting that APNIC
 publishes these AS0 ROAs in a different Trust Anchor (AS0 TAL) and recommends its Members use APNIC AS0 TAL as a routing information service only.

https://www.apnic.net/community/security/resource-certification/apnic-limitations-of-liability-for-rpki-2/

Hi Jordi,

> If I understood correctly the implications of the EC decision, *if* tis policy proposal doesn’t go thru they will become reserved anyway.
>  
> Could the staff confirm that?

Yes, as per the EC resolution 2021-09, all historical resource holders will need to become, or remain, a member or non-member of APNIC on and from 1 January 2023, in order to continue to receive
 registry services from APNIC. Any historical resources that are not managed under an APNIC account from 1 January 2023 will be removed from whois and placed into “Reserved” status. 

Our understanding is that your proposal is to address the actions that need to be taken 12 months after these resources have been placed into reserved status.

Thanks
Vivek

From:
Aftab Siddiqui <aftab.siddiqui@gmail.com>

Date: Saturday, 27 August 2022 at 2:30 pm

To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>

Cc: sig-policy@lists.apnic.net <sig-policy@lists.apnic.net>, Brett O'Hara <brett@fj.com.au>

Subject: [sig-policy] Re: prop-147-v001: Historical Resources Management

Hi Jordi,

I absolutely concur with Brett and Andrew, they have already mentioned the reasoning very clearly. I don't support this policy right now and maybe we can review the status in 12 months and have another constructive discussion. 

Also, it would be a right time to have a clear policy from APNIC to clarify what and when any (available + reserved) resource goes into AS0 TAL.

Regards,

Aftab A. Siddiqui

On Sat, 27 Aug 2022 at 14:21, Brett O'Hara <brett@fj.com.au> wrote:

Hi Jordi and SIG

The implication of your proposal, by 5.1.4, is that by putting them in Reserved status, APNIC will assign them RPKI ROA AS0 and deny them routing on the Internet.  You will then allow them 12 months grace after you have denied their operation
 to officially claim them.  Your update from 6 to 12 months has not allowed APNIC any more time to contact custodians.

I agree with Andrew that the current impact is too large and too damaging to internet end point users in your proposed time frame.

I believe APNIC members should asess the progress of the HRM project in 12 months time and consider your proposal then, rather than mandating in a policy final date in this cycle, despite your afore mentioned risks.

Regards,

    Brett

On Fri, Aug 26, 2022 at 10:19 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via sig-policy <sig-policy@lists.apnic.net> wrote:

Hi Andrew, all,

I see it otherwise.

We are providing APNIC one year to resolve the remaining cases. If we don’t have this policy on January 1^st 2023, all those
 addresses will be “frozen” into reserved status.

Please note this:

“The recent EC resolution (22^nd February 2022), imply that historical resource holders in the APNIC region would need to become Members or Non-Members
 by 1^st January 2023 in order to receive registration services. Failing this, historical resource registration will no longer be published in the APNIC Whois Database and said resources will be placed into reserved status.”

Failing to reach consensus on this proposal (suggestions to improve it, of course, are welcome, as we can publish new versions in the next few days), means that
 we can’t change the situation up to a new alternative proposal reach consensus, which could happen around March 2023, or may be September 2023. Till then those resources are “lost” in the wild.

Resources in the wild could be more easily hijacked or used for all kind of malicious activities. Do you think the community should accept that risk?

In the impact analysis of the first version, APNIC indicated that 6 months may be too short, and 12 months will be safer, so we opted for keeping the 12 months
 option only. Do you have any data that suggest that APNIC will be unable to complete the project in the next year?

Regards,

Jordi
@jordipalet

El 26/8/22, 2:56, "Andrew Yager" <andrew@rwts.com.au> escribió:

Hi,

Thanks for this data vivek.

On the basis of this I cannot suggest this proposal can be accepted - the impact is too large.

Certainly we, as a community, and APNIC as a whole, need to look at what can be done to assist these prefixes coming "into the fold" - but with 581 still with no response, and 175 "not yet done" - the risk of this proposal having adverse consequences
 on the routing table is too great.

Andrew

On Fri, 26 Aug 2022 at 17:45, Vivek Nigam <vivek@apnic.net> wrote:

Hi Andrew,

Please see my responses below.

> a) the number of legacy resources currently in use (as in, visible in the global table), but not yet claimed through this process

We started this project in February this year and identified 3932 historical IPv4 prefixes that were not managed under an APNIC account. 885 of these prefixes are currently visible in the routing table. Following if the breakdown of these 885 prefixes.

Retained by custodian: 81

These prefixes have successfully been claimed and are managed under active APNIC accounts now.

Being claimed by custodian: 175

We are in contact with the potential custodians and they are in the process of claiming these prefixes.

No response: 581

We have sent emails to the custodians but have not got a response as yet. We are in the process to find alternate contacts by contacting the ASN announcing these prefixes.

Yet to contact: 44

No valid contact information available in whois. We are in the process to look for alternate contacts via publicly available searches as well as contacting the ASN announcing these prefixes.   

No longer needed: 4

The custodians have informed us they no longer need these prefixes. We are in the process to contact the ASN announcing these prefixes to check why they are announcing them.

> b) the number of legacy resource claims that have been attempted but not successfully justified

So far we have not formally rejected any claims. Where a claimant does not provide sufficient information to support their claim, we do not reject the claim but rather advise them we will need more information in order to properly assess it. We have 3 pending
 cases where we have requested additional supporting information and one case where the custodian has refused to setup an APNIC account. We will continue to assist them with their claims through the year.

Thanks

Vivek

From: Srinivas (Sunny) Chendi <sunny@apnic.net>

Date: Wednesday, 24 August 2022 at 6:02 pm

To: Andrew Yager <andrew@rwts.com.au>, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>

Cc: sig-policy@lists.apnic.net <sig-policy@lists.apnic.net>

Subject: [sig-policy] Re: prop-147-v001: Historical Resources Management

Dear Andrew,

Thank you for requesting data.

We will do our best to provide it as soon as possible.

Regards,

Sunny

APNIC Secretariat

On 24/08/2022 4:03 pm, Andrew Yager wrote:

Is there any data indicating:

a) the number of legacy resources currently in use (as in, visible in the global table), but not yet claimed through this process

b) the number of legacy resource claims that have been attempted but not successfully justified

I am aware that this has remained a topic of concern for a number of APNIC members and technical engineers, and many have been working with APNIC to try and resolve resource allocations with various degrees of success.

Andrew

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 09:36, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via sig-policy <sig-policy@lists.apnic.net> wrote:

Hi Sunny, all,

Just summited a new proposal version amending the editorial inputs and also adding the following text:

“Furthermore, from 1^st January 2023, all historical resources need to be maintained in a current APNIC account. In the event
 of an account closure, the historical resource will be placed in a quarantine period and then made available for re-delegation similar to current resources.”

Also, in order to facilitate the job, I agree that will be safer to move to a single option with 12 months, so I’ve deleted the “2 choices” in the new version.

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

El 23/8/22, 6:51, "Srinivas (Sunny) Chendi" <sunny@apnic.net> escribió:

Hi all, 

This is the secretariat's impact assessment for prop-147-v001, which is also 

available on the proposal page.

    http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-147

APNIC understands that this proposal suggests that historical IPv4 resources be justified and claimed, or that they be made available to other organizations that require them.

APNIC also notes the deletion of Section 4.2.1. Recovery of unused historical resources. As reported to the community at APNIC 50, this may no longer be applicable once the project is completed, possibly by the end of 2022.

https://conference.apnic.net/50/assets/files/APCS790/Reclaiming-unused-IPv4.pdf

Recommendations:

For consistency of language and to align with the current policy document, the reference to "available pool" could be changed to "free pool". Also the reference to "original resource holder" and "original custodians" could be changed to "custodian/s".

Given the number of uncontactable resource holders, the 12-month option would be safer for APNIC to implement, as some historical resource holders may not be aware of the changes to the treatment of historical resources until they are placed into reserved status
 on January 1, 2023.

Clarification:

This proposal only addresses historical resources that have not been claimed by January 1st, 2023. It does not specify what happens to the historical resources that are claimed, but the Member or Non-Member account is not renewed after January 1, 2023. These
 resources will be considered historical and may remain in reserve status indefinitely.

Regards,

Sunny

APNIC Secretariat

On 11/08/2022 4:59 pm, chku wrote:

Dear SIG members,

The proposal "prop-147: Historical Resources Management" has been 
sent to the Policy SIG for review.

It will be presented at the Open Policy Meeting (OPM) at APNIC 54 on 
Thursday, 15 September 2022.

    https://conference.apnic.net/54/program/schedule/#/day/8

We invite you to review and comment on the proposal on the mailing list 
before the OPM.

The comment period on the mailing list before the OPM is an important 
part of the Policy Development Process (PDP). We encourage you to 
express your views on the proposal:

  - Do you support or oppose this proposal?
  - Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so,
    tell the community about your situation.
  - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal?
  - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear?
  - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective?

Information about this proposal is appended below as well as available at:

    http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-147

Regards,
Bertrand, Shaila, and Ching-Heng
APNIC Policy SIG Chairs

---------------------------------------------------------------

prop-147-v001: Historical Resources Management

----------------------------------------------------------------

Proposer: Jordi Palet Martinez (jordi.palet@theipv6company.comAnupam)
          Anupam Agrawal (anupamagrawal.in@gmail.com)

1. Problem statement
--------------------
Section 4.2.1 is outdated and only looking for very old non-routed resources.

The recent EC resolution (22nd February 2022), imply that historical resource holders in the APNIC region would need to become Members or Non-Members by 1st January 2023 in order to receive registration services. Failing this, historical resource registration will no longer be published in the APNIC Whois Database and said resources will be placed into reserved status.

Given the continued need for IPv4 addresses, it would seem illogical to keep these unused historical resources in reserve indefinitely. Alternatively, these resources can be used in a way that is sufficiently justified in accordance with existing policies, allowing other organizations to benefit from them during the IPv6 transition.

2. Objective of policy change
-----------------------------
Ensure that historical IPv4 resources are justified and claimed, or that they are available for other organizations that require them.

If the resources are marked as reserved, the original holders may reclaim them with a valid justification, when APNIC failed to contact them for whatever reason.

One example of a valid justification is the case where an organization is actually using them internally and there are valid reasons to instead use RFC1918 space, however the space is not routed.

To give the original resource holders more time to reclaim them, we propose two time-frames for the community discussion and consideration: 6 months and 12 months.

3. Situation in other regions
-----------------------------
In other RIRs legacy resources lose their legacy status when the RSA is signed (upon receiving other resources), so they become under the regular monitoring. In other cases, there is nothing specified by policies.

4. Proposed policy solution
---------------------------
Proposed policy solution (option 6-months):

Actual text:
4.2.1. Recovery of unused historical resources   (remove)
To recover these globally un-routed resources and place them back in the free pool for re-delegation, APNIC will contact networks responsible for historical address space in the APNIC region that has not been globally routed since 1 January 1998. 

To recover un-routed historical AS numbers, APNIC will contact networks responsible for resources not globally used for a reasonable period of time.    

Proposed text:
4.3. Historical Resources Management
Historical resources that have not been claimed by the original resource holder will be deleted from the APNIC Whois database after 1st January 2023, and marked as reserved.

Historical resources marked as reserved have an additional six (6) months to be claimed by their original custodians. After that, APNIC will add these resources to the available pool for re-delegation.

Proposed policy solution (option 12-months):
Actual text:
4.2.1. Recovery of unused historical resources   (remove)
To recover these globally un-routed resources and place them back in the free pool for re-delegation, APNIC will contact networks responsible for historical address space in the APNIC region that has not been globally routed since 1 January 1998. 

To recover un-routed historical AS numbers, APNIC will contact networks responsible for resources not globally used for a reasonable period of time.    

Proposed text:
4.3. Historical Resources Management
Historical resources that have not been claimed by the original resource holder will be deleted from the APNIC Whois database after 1st January 2023, and marked as reserved.

Historical resources marked as reserved have an additional twelve (12) months to be claimed by their original custodians. After that, APNIC will add these resources to the available pool for re-delegation.

5. Advantages / Disadvantages
-----------------------------
Advantages:
Fulfilling the objective above indicated.

Disadvantages:
None.

6. Impact on resource holders
-----------------------------
None.

7. References
-------------
None.
_______________________________________________
sig-policy - https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/
To unsubscribe send an email to sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net

-- 

_______________________________________________________________________

Srinivas (Sunny) Chendi (he/him)
Senior Advisor - Policy and Community Development

Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC) |  Tel: +61 7 3858 3100
PO Box 3646 South Brisbane, QLD 4101 Australia  |  Fax: +61 7 3858 3199
6 Cordelia Street, South Brisbane, QLD          |  http://www.apnic.net
_______________________________________________________________________

NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
copies of the original message.

_______________________________________________ sig-policy - 
https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to
sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net

**********************************************

IPv4 is over

Are you ready for the new Internet ?

http://www.theipv6company.com

The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
 the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents
 of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

_______________________________________________

sig-policy - 
https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/

To unsubscribe send an email to 
sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net

-- 

_______________________________________________________________________

Srinivas (Sunny) Chendi (he/him)
Senior Advisor - Policy and Community Development

Asia Pacific Network Information Centre (APNIC) |  Tel: +61 7 3858 3100
PO Box 3646 South Brisbane, QLD 4101 Australia  |  Fax: +61 7 3858 3199
6 Cordelia Street, South Brisbane, QLD          |  http://www.apnic.net
_______________________________________________________________________

NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all
copies of the original message.

**********************************************

IPv4 is over

Are you ready for the new Internet ?

http://www.theipv6company.com

The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
 the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents
 of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

_______________________________________________

sig-policy - 
https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/

To unsubscribe send an email to 
sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net

_______________________________________________

sig-policy - 
https://mailman.apnic.net/sig-policy@lists.apnic.net/

To unsubscribe send an email to 
sig-policy-leave@lists.apnic.net

Orbit

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

[sig-policy] Re: prop-147-v001: Historical Resources Management