apnic-transfers

apnic-transfers@apnic.net

112 discussions

Re: /16 Lease
by Vivek Nigam 21 Jun '22

21 Jun '22

Hi Mike, Our position hasn’t changed. To clarify once again, there is no provisions for IP address leasing in APNIC policy, and as discussed, leasing is not something APNIC can provide services for. Please can I also remind you the APNIC transfers mailing list is for the discussion of transfers, as per the charter. Thanks Vivek From: Mike Burns <mike(a)sum.net> Date: Monday, 20 June 2022 at 10:40 pm To: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net>, Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com>, 'Gaurav Kansal' <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>, 'Karl Kloppenborg' <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: Re: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Thanks Vivek, I believe we are both in agreement that leasing addresses out to non-connected customers while providing assignments and ROAs to support that lease is not a violation of any policy or contract with APNIC and will not risk revocation of those resources. As I mentioned in a previous message, fraud in justification is not the same thing as leasing at all. In the context of this new understanding, what do you have to say about utilizing the transfer list for leasing purposes? Would that be a violation of the transfer list access policy? After all that is how we reached this point in the conversation as it started from a post on the list soliciting Leasing. We haven't heard whether such a post is acceptable or not as we veered off into the leasing discussion. Can we use this list for posting lease offers or requests? Who decides this? Regards, Mike Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message -------- From: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net> Date: 6/20/22 4:16 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Mike Burns <mike(a)sum.net>, Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com>, 'Gaurav Kansal' <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>, 'Karl Kloppenborg' <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: Re: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Mike, APNIC revokes resource delegations when we have evidence of policy violation. For example, if a LIR receives an IP delegation from APNIC and immediately leases them out to non-connected customers, the original criteria for their delegation is considered invalid. Such delegations can be revoked under policy clause 4.1.2. Validity of delegations If a Member has addresses that are eligible for transfer but decides to lease them to non-connected customers, we don't revoke their delegation or remove their ROAs/assignments. However, if the Member (or the customer leasing the addresses from the Member) contacts APNIC for support related to the leasing, we inform them that APNIC does provide services to facilitate leasing as there are no provisions for this in the APNIC policy. The APNIC Transfer mailing list is one of the services we provide to facilitate transfers and my initial reply to this thread was to clarify this. Thanks Vivek From: Mike Burns <mike(a)sum.net> Date: Wednesday, 15 June 2022 at 10:13 pm To: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net>, Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com>, 'Gaurav Kansal' <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>, 'Karl Kloppenborg' <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: Re: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Vivek, Let's make it clear where our interpretation differs then. If an LIR leases the addresses out to a non-connected customer and creates an Roa for that purpose and also an assignment for that purpose would that LIR be violating any APNIC policy or contract? And would that activity provide a reason for revocation of those resources? Regards Mike Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message -------- From: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net> Date: 6/15/22 2:33 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com>, 'Mike Burns' <mike(a)sum.net>, 'Gaurav Kansal' <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>, 'Karl Kloppenborg' <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: Re: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Mike, Our interpretation of this policy is different. Policy (5.2.2) applies to LIR type members. The policy says LIRs 'may' delegate address space to their downstream customers because LIRs can assign address space to their own network infrastructure as well as to users of their network services. https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#2.1.3.-Local-Internet-Regi… When LIRs delegate addresses to their downstream customers, they are considered non-portable and must be returned to the LIR if the downstream customer ceases to receive connectivity from the LIR. Any Members that are leasing their address space are doing it outside the APNIC policy framework. If the community wishes to include provisions for leasing, proposals can be submitted to the Policy SIG for community discussion. Thanks Vivek From: Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com> Date: Tuesday, 14 June 2022 at 3:37 am To: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net>, 'Mike Burns' <mike(a)sum.net>, 'Gaurav Kansal' <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>, 'Karl Kloppenborg' <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: RE: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Vivek, Sorry for the delay in replying and thanks for your input. As an APNIC registered broker it’s important that we understand the policies completely so I want to clarify things if possible. My reading of your linked policy (5.2.2) does not prevent the assignment of subnets to non-connected customers. It says that assignments “may” be made to “downstream customers , which are operating networks, such as ISPs,..”. That is quite different from saying assignments “may not” be made to lessees (or anybody). Nor is there mention of a circuit or a definition of downstream anywhere. In terms of address allocation, lessees are downstream customers. You have already acknowledged below that an ROA can be created by the resource holder for any ASN, and if my reading above is correct it means that the resource holder can in fact create both an ROA and an assignment for the lessee. So an APNIC ISP member can lease addresses to a lessee who uses them on an operational network, create an ROA for the lessee, and create an assignment so the lessee’s contact information is recorded in Whois. (With the exception of the final /8 blocks for the first 5 years.) All without violating policy. But that APNIC member may not use leased-out addresses to justify receipt of new transfers. Do you agree with this interpretation of policy and contract? Since you are staff at APNIC I think it is important to hear from you. Note I am not talking about fraud in justifications, such as justifying receipt of a transfer for claimed internal purposes and then leasing it out immediately. Regards, Mike From: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2022 2:56 AM To: Mike Burns <mike(a)sum.net>; Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>; Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com; mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Mike, APNIC Members can create ROAs for their addresses with any ASN they have authorized. When addresses are transferred to an APNIC Member, those addresses are added to the Member’s resource certificate which enables them to create ROAs. Since APNIC policy does not have provisions for leasing, APNIC Members that are leasing addresses need to rely on the registered holder for these services. You are correct that APNIC policy does not say anything about leasing. What the policy says is that APNIC Members who have received IP allocations can delegate address space to their downstream customers to whom they provide connectivity. https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#5.2.2.-IPv4-Delegations-to… If the community wishes to change APNIC address policy to permit assignments without connectivity, proposals can be submitted to the Policy SIG. Thanks Vivek From: Mike Burns <mike(a)sum.net<mailto:mike@sum.net>> Date: Thursday, 9 June 2022 at 2:50 am To: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net<mailto:vivek@apnic.net>>, Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in<mailto:gaurav.kansal@nic.in>>, Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au<mailto:karl@rapidwireless.com.au>> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com> <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: RE: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Vivek, Thanks for your reply and for the clarification on the final / 8 which we know has special characteristics. Otherwise nothing you've written prevents leasing. All you've said is that certain Support Services which may be useful for leasing will not be provided. So to be clear leasing is not mentioned nor prohibited in APNIC policy anywhere nor in the registration services agreement. In actuality members who no longer need their addresses have the option to transfer them or to return them or lease them out. To be clear, are you saying that APNIC will not allow a member to generate an ROA with an ASN not belonging to that member? As to whois registration, I'm pretty sure members can do assignments to their clients with or without a circuit. Can you be more clear on what services will be denied to those who attempt to lease out their addresses? Regards Mike Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message -------- From: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net<mailto:vivek@apnic.net>> Date: 6/8/22 7:13 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in<mailto:gaurav.kansal@nic.in>>, Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au<mailto:karl@rapidwireless.com.au>> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Mike and all, APNIC delegates IP addresses to Members based on their demonstrated need. What Members can do with that address space once it is no longer needed is impacted by policy requirements. I will provide two examples. Example 1: Addresses delegated from the last /8 pool cannot be transferred for a minimum of five years. During that time, if the reason for the original request is no longer valid, the resources must be returned to APNIC. https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#8.0.-IPv4-Transfers https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#4.0.-Resource-License So in this instance, if a Member leases out their IP addresses within five years of receiving the delegation from APNIC, they are clearly not needed for their original declared purpose and must be returned to APNIC. Example 2: For addresses delegated to a Member more than five years ago, if a Member no longer has the need for the address space, APNIC policy says the Member can choose to transfer it to another organization or return it to APNIC. APNIC policy does not have provisions for leasing. So in the second example, APNIC Members leasing addresses would be doing so outside the policy framework and will not receive APNIC services such as whois registration and RPKI/ROA access related to those addresses. This in turn may make it difficult to freely utilise those addresses on the Internet, due to lack of clear authorisation and a reliance on the registered holder (lessor) to assist. Of course, if the addresses being leased were not delegated by APNIC, then the relevant RIR’s policies apply to those addresses. If the community wishes to change APNIC address policy to either include or clarify provisions for leasing, proposals can be submitted to the Policy SIG for community discussion. Thanks Vivek From: Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in<mailto:gaurav.kansal@nic.in>> Date: Wednesday, 8 June 2022 at 1:26 pm To: Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au<mailto:karl@rapidwireless.com.au>> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com> <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>>, Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net<mailto:vivek@apnic.net>>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: Re: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Karl, Totally agrees on your words. At least APNIC should not promote IPv4 auctions, leases and all other dirty stuff. Why can’t we have a policy in APNIC to not to allow IPV4 auctions/leases and only allow transfers after proper scrutiny. But money can do anything and i am doubtful whether apnic will even agrees on our points. Thanks Gaurav Kansal On 08-Jun-2022, at 08:50, apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net> wrote: The fact of the matter is, why are leases and auctions even a thing? If you don’t need the resource anymore, doing the right thing and handing it back allows companies like myself to be able to continue operating and pushes further the move to IPv6. We simply don’t have the funds to participate in auctions and frankly, we shouldn’t have too. It is a failure of NIC’ registrars around the world that they’ve forgone the push to IPv6 and instead made a pay-to-play, everyone for themselves environment where only the wealthy and large carriers can play. The fact that companies like IPv4-Auctions, IPv4-Vault, IPTrading, etc even exist underscore just how disgusting this system has become. APNIC and all the other registrars should be ashamed of themselves. Kind Regards, Karl Kloppenborg. From: Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>> Date: Wednesday, 8 June 2022 at 5:37 am To: Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com<mailto:mike@iptrading.com>>, 'Vivek Nigam' <vivek(a)apnic.net<mailto:vivek@apnic.net>>, 'mailman_apnic-transfers' <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Thank you Mike and Vivek for the points made. Vivek – why is there such a concern with a lease conversation? Some members are unable to perform a transfer due to lack of budgets, so lease might be their only option… Is there a mailing list where we can post about lease? And does the transfer mailing list allow post about selling IPs, since that is directly related to a transfer? From: Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com<mailto:mike@iptrading.com>> Date: Monday, June 6, 2022 at 7:48 AM To: 'Vivek Nigam' <vivek(a)apnic.net<mailto:vivek@apnic.net>>, Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>>, 'mailman_apnic-transfers' <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: RE: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Vivek, There is such a thing as a lease-to-own transfer, which ends up as a transfer. And there are those who might be considering transfer versus lease, and that definitely comports with the Charter for this list, which requires “topics relevant to IPv4 transfers”. Everything you wrote below is true and factual but deftly elides the meaningful point, which is that leasing is not prohibited at APNIC. (Although leased-out addresses would not count towards justifying a new purchase.) If I am wrong, please let us know by telling us what law, policy or contract term with APNIC would be violated by an APNIC resource holder leasing blocks to non-connected customers. And would that subject them to revocation risk? Thanks and regards, Mike Burns IPTrading.com From: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net<mailto:vivek@apnic.net>> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2022 9:34 PM To: Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>>; mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Raquel, APNIC policy does not have any provisions for leasing of IP addresses on their own. There was a policy proposal for temporary transfer prop-119 but it did not reach consensus and was withdrawn by the author. https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/proposals/prop-119<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apnic…> APNIC Members can delegate address space to their downstream customers, which are operating networks. Such delegations are non-portable and must be returned to the Member if the downstream customer ceases to receive connectivity from the Member. We have a transfer policy which allows the transfer of unused IPv4 address between APNIC Members as well as other RIR members. For more information, see https://www.apnic.net/transfer<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apnic…> Please note the IPv4 transfers mailing list is only for the discussion of transfers, not leasing. APNIC Transfers Charter: The APNIC Transfer mailing list was created to provide a forum enabling the sources and recipients of IPv4 address transfers, as well as IPv4 brokers, to discuss topics relevant to IPv4 transfers. Hope this information helps. Regards, Vivek From: Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>> Date: Saturday, 4 June 2022 at 8:49 am To: mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: [apnic-transfers] /16 Lease Hello all, We have a clean /16 available for lease…. Please let us know if you have any interest 😊 IPv4 Vault LLC Raquel Wellington Asset Recovery Specialist +1 (424) 258-4758 raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com> _______________________________________________ apnic-transfers - https://mailman.apnic.net/apnic-transfers@apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to apnic-transfers-leave(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers-leave@apnic.net> [https://email.gov.in/videos/images/75.jpg]<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Famritmaho…>

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Re: /16 Lease
by Vivek Nigam 20 Jun '22

20 Jun '22

Hi Mike, APNIC revokes resource delegations when we have evidence of policy violation. For example, if a LIR receives an IP delegation from APNIC and immediately leases them out to non-connected customers, the original criteria for their delegation is considered invalid. Such delegations can be revoked under policy clause 4.1.2. Validity of delegations If a Member has addresses that are eligible for transfer but decides to lease them to non-connected customers, we don't revoke their delegation or remove their ROAs/assignments. However, if the Member (or the customer leasing the addresses from the Member) contacts APNIC for support related to the leasing, we inform them that APNIC does provide services to facilitate leasing as there are no provisions for this in the APNIC policy. The APNIC Transfer mailing list is one of the services we provide to facilitate transfers and my initial reply to this thread was to clarify this. Thanks Vivek From: Mike Burns <mike(a)sum.net> Date: Wednesday, 15 June 2022 at 10:13 pm To: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net>, Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com>, 'Gaurav Kansal' <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>, 'Karl Kloppenborg' <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: Re: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Vivek, Let's make it clear where our interpretation differs then. If an LIR leases the addresses out to a non-connected customer and creates an Roa for that purpose and also an assignment for that purpose would that LIR be violating any APNIC policy or contract? And would that activity provide a reason for revocation of those resources? Regards Mike Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message -------- From: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net> Date: 6/15/22 2:33 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com>, 'Mike Burns' <mike(a)sum.net>, 'Gaurav Kansal' <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>, 'Karl Kloppenborg' <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: Re: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Mike, Our interpretation of this policy is different. Policy (5.2.2) applies to LIR type members. The policy says LIRs 'may' delegate address space to their downstream customers because LIRs can assign address space to their own network infrastructure as well as to users of their network services. https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#2.1.3.-Local-Internet-Regi… When LIRs delegate addresses to their downstream customers, they are considered non-portable and must be returned to the LIR if the downstream customer ceases to receive connectivity from the LIR. Any Members that are leasing their address space are doing it outside the APNIC policy framework. If the community wishes to include provisions for leasing, proposals can be submitted to the Policy SIG for community discussion. Thanks Vivek From: Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com> Date: Tuesday, 14 June 2022 at 3:37 am To: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net>, 'Mike Burns' <mike(a)sum.net>, 'Gaurav Kansal' <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>, 'Karl Kloppenborg' <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: RE: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Vivek, Sorry for the delay in replying and thanks for your input. As an APNIC registered broker it’s important that we understand the policies completely so I want to clarify things if possible. My reading of your linked policy (5.2.2) does not prevent the assignment of subnets to non-connected customers. It says that assignments “may” be made to “downstream customers , which are operating networks, such as ISPs,..”. That is quite different from saying assignments “may not” be made to lessees (or anybody). Nor is there mention of a circuit or a definition of downstream anywhere. In terms of address allocation, lessees are downstream customers. You have already acknowledged below that an ROA can be created by the resource holder for any ASN, and if my reading above is correct it means that the resource holder can in fact create both an ROA and an assignment for the lessee. So an APNIC ISP member can lease addresses to a lessee who uses them on an operational network, create an ROA for the lessee, and create an assignment so the lessee’s contact information is recorded in Whois. (With the exception of the final /8 blocks for the first 5 years.) All without violating policy. But that APNIC member may not use leased-out addresses to justify receipt of new transfers. Do you agree with this interpretation of policy and contract? Since you are staff at APNIC I think it is important to hear from you. Note I am not talking about fraud in justifications, such as justifying receipt of a transfer for claimed internal purposes and then leasing it out immediately. Regards, Mike From: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2022 2:56 AM To: Mike Burns <mike(a)sum.net>; Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>; Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com; mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Mike, APNIC Members can create ROAs for their addresses with any ASN they have authorized. When addresses are transferred to an APNIC Member, those addresses are added to the Member’s resource certificate which enables them to create ROAs. Since APNIC policy does not have provisions for leasing, APNIC Members that are leasing addresses need to rely on the registered holder for these services. You are correct that APNIC policy does not say anything about leasing. What the policy says is that APNIC Members who have received IP allocations can delegate address space to their downstream customers to whom they provide connectivity. https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#5.2.2.-IPv4-Delegations-to… If the community wishes to change APNIC address policy to permit assignments without connectivity, proposals can be submitted to the Policy SIG. Thanks Vivek From: Mike Burns <mike(a)sum.net<mailto:mike@sum.net>> Date: Thursday, 9 June 2022 at 2:50 am To: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net<mailto:vivek@apnic.net>>, Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in<mailto:gaurav.kansal@nic.in>>, Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au<mailto:karl@rapidwireless.com.au>> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com> <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: RE: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Vivek, Thanks for your reply and for the clarification on the final / 8 which we know has special characteristics. Otherwise nothing you've written prevents leasing. All you've said is that certain Support Services which may be useful for leasing will not be provided. So to be clear leasing is not mentioned nor prohibited in APNIC policy anywhere nor in the registration services agreement. In actuality members who no longer need their addresses have the option to transfer them or to return them or lease them out. To be clear, are you saying that APNIC will not allow a member to generate an ROA with an ASN not belonging to that member? As to whois registration, I'm pretty sure members can do assignments to their clients with or without a circuit. Can you be more clear on what services will be denied to those who attempt to lease out their addresses? Regards Mike Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message -------- From: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net<mailto:vivek@apnic.net>> Date: 6/8/22 7:13 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in<mailto:gaurav.kansal@nic.in>>, Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au<mailto:karl@rapidwireless.com.au>> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Mike and all, APNIC delegates IP addresses to Members based on their demonstrated need. What Members can do with that address space once it is no longer needed is impacted by policy requirements. I will provide two examples. Example 1: Addresses delegated from the last /8 pool cannot be transferred for a minimum of five years. During that time, if the reason for the original request is no longer valid, the resources must be returned to APNIC. https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#8.0.-IPv4-Transfers https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#4.0.-Resource-License So in this instance, if a Member leases out their IP addresses within five years of receiving the delegation from APNIC, they are clearly not needed for their original declared purpose and must be returned to APNIC. Example 2: For addresses delegated to a Member more than five years ago, if a Member no longer has the need for the address space, APNIC policy says the Member can choose to transfer it to another organization or return it to APNIC. APNIC policy does not have provisions for leasing. So in the second example, APNIC Members leasing addresses would be doing so outside the policy framework and will not receive APNIC services such as whois registration and RPKI/ROA access related to those addresses. This in turn may make it difficult to freely utilise those addresses on the Internet, due to lack of clear authorisation and a reliance on the registered holder (lessor) to assist. Of course, if the addresses being leased were not delegated by APNIC, then the relevant RIR’s policies apply to those addresses. If the community wishes to change APNIC address policy to either include or clarify provisions for leasing, proposals can be submitted to the Policy SIG for community discussion. Thanks Vivek From: Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in<mailto:gaurav.kansal@nic.in>> Date: Wednesday, 8 June 2022 at 1:26 pm To: Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au<mailto:karl@rapidwireless.com.au>> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com> <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>>, Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net<mailto:vivek@apnic.net>>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: Re: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Karl, Totally agrees on your words. At least APNIC should not promote IPv4 auctions, leases and all other dirty stuff. Why can’t we have a policy in APNIC to not to allow IPV4 auctions/leases and only allow transfers after proper scrutiny. But money can do anything and i am doubtful whether apnic will even agrees on our points. Thanks Gaurav Kansal On 08-Jun-2022, at 08:50, apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net> wrote: The fact of the matter is, why are leases and auctions even a thing? If you don’t need the resource anymore, doing the right thing and handing it back allows companies like myself to be able to continue operating and pushes further the move to IPv6. We simply don’t have the funds to participate in auctions and frankly, we shouldn’t have too. It is a failure of NIC’ registrars around the world that they’ve forgone the push to IPv6 and instead made a pay-to-play, everyone for themselves environment where only the wealthy and large carriers can play. The fact that companies like IPv4-Auctions, IPv4-Vault, IPTrading, etc even exist underscore just how disgusting this system has become. APNIC and all the other registrars should be ashamed of themselves. Kind Regards, Karl Kloppenborg. From: Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>> Date: Wednesday, 8 June 2022 at 5:37 am To: Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com<mailto:mike@iptrading.com>>, 'Vivek Nigam' <vivek(a)apnic.net<mailto:vivek@apnic.net>>, 'mailman_apnic-transfers' <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Thank you Mike and Vivek for the points made. Vivek – why is there such a concern with a lease conversation? Some members are unable to perform a transfer due to lack of budgets, so lease might be their only option… Is there a mailing list where we can post about lease? And does the transfer mailing list allow post about selling IPs, since that is directly related to a transfer? From: Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com<mailto:mike@iptrading.com>> Date: Monday, June 6, 2022 at 7:48 AM To: 'Vivek Nigam' <vivek(a)apnic.net<mailto:vivek@apnic.net>>, Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>>, 'mailman_apnic-transfers' <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: RE: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Vivek, There is such a thing as a lease-to-own transfer, which ends up as a transfer. And there are those who might be considering transfer versus lease, and that definitely comports with the Charter for this list, which requires “topics relevant to IPv4 transfers”. Everything you wrote below is true and factual but deftly elides the meaningful point, which is that leasing is not prohibited at APNIC. (Although leased-out addresses would not count towards justifying a new purchase.) If I am wrong, please let us know by telling us what law, policy or contract term with APNIC would be violated by an APNIC resource holder leasing blocks to non-connected customers. And would that subject them to revocation risk? Thanks and regards, Mike Burns IPTrading.com From: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net<mailto:vivek@apnic.net>> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2022 9:34 PM To: Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>>; mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Raquel, APNIC policy does not have any provisions for leasing of IP addresses on their own. There was a policy proposal for temporary transfer prop-119 but it did not reach consensus and was withdrawn by the author. https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/proposals/prop-119<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apnic…> APNIC Members can delegate address space to their downstream customers, which are operating networks. Such delegations are non-portable and must be returned to the Member if the downstream customer ceases to receive connectivity from the Member. We have a transfer policy which allows the transfer of unused IPv4 address between APNIC Members as well as other RIR members. For more information, see https://www.apnic.net/transfer<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apnic…> Please note the IPv4 transfers mailing list is only for the discussion of transfers, not leasing. APNIC Transfers Charter: The APNIC Transfer mailing list was created to provide a forum enabling the sources and recipients of IPv4 address transfers, as well as IPv4 brokers, to discuss topics relevant to IPv4 transfers. Hope this information helps. Regards, Vivek From: Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>> Date: Saturday, 4 June 2022 at 8:49 am To: mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: [apnic-transfers] /16 Lease Hello all, We have a clean /16 available for lease…. Please let us know if you have any interest 😊 IPv4 Vault LLC Raquel Wellington Asset Recovery Specialist +1 (424) 258-4758 raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com> _______________________________________________ apnic-transfers - https://mailman.apnic.net/apnic-transfers@apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to apnic-transfers-leave(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers-leave@apnic.net> [https://email.gov.in/videos/images/75.jpg]<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Famritmaho…>

2 1

Re: /16 Lease
by Vivek Nigam 15 Jun '22

15 Jun '22

Hi Mike, APNIC Members can create ROAs for their addresses with any ASN they have authorized. When addresses are transferred to an APNIC Member, those addresses are added to the Member’s resource certificate which enables them to create ROAs. Since APNIC policy does not have provisions for leasing, APNIC Members that are leasing addresses need to rely on the registered holder for these services. You are correct that APNIC policy does not say anything about leasing. What the policy says is that APNIC Members who have received IP allocations can delegate address space to their downstream customers to whom they provide connectivity. https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#5.2.2.-IPv4-Delegations-to… If the community wishes to change APNIC address policy to permit assignments without connectivity, proposals can be submitted to the Policy SIG. Thanks Vivek From: Mike Burns <mike(a)sum.net> Date: Thursday, 9 June 2022 at 2:50 am To: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net>, Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>, Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: RE: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Vivek, Thanks for your reply and for the clarification on the final / 8 which we know has special characteristics. Otherwise nothing you've written prevents leasing. All you've said is that certain Support Services which may be useful for leasing will not be provided. So to be clear leasing is not mentioned nor prohibited in APNIC policy anywhere nor in the registration services agreement. In actuality members who no longer need their addresses have the option to transfer them or to return them or lease them out. To be clear, are you saying that APNIC will not allow a member to generate an ROA with an ASN not belonging to that member? As to whois registration, I'm pretty sure members can do assignments to their clients with or without a circuit. Can you be more clear on what services will be denied to those who attempt to lease out their addresses? Regards Mike Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message -------- From: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net> Date: 6/8/22 7:13 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>, Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Mike and all, APNIC delegates IP addresses to Members based on their demonstrated need. What Members can do with that address space once it is no longer needed is impacted by policy requirements. I will provide two examples. Example 1: Addresses delegated from the last /8 pool cannot be transferred for a minimum of five years. During that time, if the reason for the original request is no longer valid, the resources must be returned to APNIC. https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#8.0.-IPv4-Transfers https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#4.0.-Resource-License So in this instance, if a Member leases out their IP addresses within five years of receiving the delegation from APNIC, they are clearly not needed for their original declared purpose and must be returned to APNIC. Example 2: For addresses delegated to a Member more than five years ago, if a Member no longer has the need for the address space, APNIC policy says the Member can choose to transfer it to another organization or return it to APNIC. APNIC policy does not have provisions for leasing. So in the second example, APNIC Members leasing addresses would be doing so outside the policy framework and will not receive APNIC services such as whois registration and RPKI/ROA access related to those addresses. This in turn may make it difficult to freely utilise those addresses on the Internet, due to lack of clear authorisation and a reliance on the registered holder (lessor) to assist. Of course, if the addresses being leased were not delegated by APNIC, then the relevant RIR’s policies apply to those addresses. If the community wishes to change APNIC address policy to either include or clarify provisions for leasing, proposals can be submitted to the Policy SIG for community discussion. Thanks Vivek From: Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in> Date: Wednesday, 8 June 2022 at 1:26 pm To: Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com>, Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: Re: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Karl, Totally agrees on your words. At least APNIC should not promote IPv4 auctions, leases and all other dirty stuff. Why can’t we have a policy in APNIC to not to allow IPV4 auctions/leases and only allow transfers after proper scrutiny. But money can do anything and i am doubtful whether apnic will even agrees on our points. Thanks Gaurav Kansal On 08-Jun-2022, at 08:50, apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net wrote: The fact of the matter is, why are leases and auctions even a thing? If you don’t need the resource anymore, doing the right thing and handing it back allows companies like myself to be able to continue operating and pushes further the move to IPv6. We simply don’t have the funds to participate in auctions and frankly, we shouldn’t have too. It is a failure of NIC’ registrars around the world that they’ve forgone the push to IPv6 and instead made a pay-to-play, everyone for themselves environment where only the wealthy and large carriers can play. The fact that companies like IPv4-Auctions, IPv4-Vault, IPTrading, etc even exist underscore just how disgusting this system has become. APNIC and all the other registrars should be ashamed of themselves. Kind Regards, Karl Kloppenborg. From: Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com> Date: Wednesday, 8 June 2022 at 5:37 am To: Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com>, 'Vivek Nigam' <vivek(a)apnic.net>, 'mailman_apnic-transfers' <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Thank you Mike and Vivek for the points made. Vivek – why is there such a concern with a lease conversation? Some members are unable to perform a transfer due to lack of budgets, so lease might be their only option… Is there a mailing list where we can post about lease? And does the transfer mailing list allow post about selling IPs, since that is directly related to a transfer? From: Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com> Date: Monday, June 6, 2022 at 7:48 AM To: 'Vivek Nigam' <vivek(a)apnic.net>, Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com>, 'mailman_apnic-transfers' <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: RE: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Vivek, There is such a thing as a lease-to-own transfer, which ends up as a transfer. And there are those who might be considering transfer versus lease, and that definitely comports with the Charter for this list, which requires “topics relevant to IPv4 transfers”. Everything you wrote below is true and factual but deftly elides the meaningful point, which is that leasing is not prohibited at APNIC. (Although leased-out addresses would not count towards justifying a new purchase.) If I am wrong, please let us know by telling us what law, policy or contract term with APNIC would be violated by an APNIC resource holder leasing blocks to non-connected customers. And would that subject them to revocation risk? Thanks and regards, Mike Burns IPTrading.com From: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2022 9:34 PM To: Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com>; mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Raquel, APNIC policy does not have any provisions for leasing of IP addresses on their own. There was a policy proposal for temporary transfer prop-119 but it did not reach consensus and was withdrawn by the author. https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/proposals/prop-119<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apnic…> APNIC Members can delegate address space to their downstream customers, which are operating networks. Such delegations are non-portable and must be returned to the Member if the downstream customer ceases to receive connectivity from the Member. We have a transfer policy which allows the transfer of unused IPv4 address between APNIC Members as well as other RIR members. For more information, see https://www.apnic.net/transfer<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apnic…> Please note the IPv4 transfers mailing list is only for the discussion of transfers, not leasing. APNIC Transfers Charter: The APNIC Transfer mailing list was created to provide a forum enabling the sources and recipients of IPv4 address transfers, as well as IPv4 brokers, to discuss topics relevant to IPv4 transfers. Hope this information helps. Regards, Vivek From: Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>> Date: Saturday, 4 June 2022 at 8:49 am To: mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: [apnic-transfers] /16 Lease Hello all, We have a clean /16 available for lease…. Please let us know if you have any interest 😊 IPv4 Vault LLC Raquel Wellington Asset Recovery Specialist +1 (424) 258-4758 raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com> _______________________________________________ apnic-transfers - https://mailman.apnic.net/apnic-transfers@apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to apnic-transfers-leave(a)apnic.net [https://email.gov.in/videos/images/75.jpg]<https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Famritmaho…>

3 3

/16 Lease
by Raquel Wellington 09 Jun '22

09 Jun '22

Hello all, We have a clean /16 available for lease…. Please let us know if you have any interest 😊 IPv4 Vault LLC Raquel Wellington Asset Recovery Specialist +1 (424) 258-4758 raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>

7 12

Re: /16 Lease
by Raquel Wellington 08 Jun '22

08 Jun '22

Sure I can agree auctions are not a good way to transfer IPs. Why are leasing an issues? Any time a downstream client gets IP addresses from an upstream provider, they are leasing the IPs. While it isn’t usually a line item cost, the prices for the IPs are based into the cost of the bandwidth. Therefore, IP leasing has always been apart of the industry From: Mike Burns <mike(a)sum.net> Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 9:52 AM To: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net>, Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>, Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: RE: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Vivek, Thanks for your reply and for the clarification on the final / 8 which we know has special characteristics. Otherwise nothing you've written prevents leasing. All you've said is that certain Support Services which may be useful for leasing will not be provided. So to be clear leasing is not mentioned nor prohibited in APNIC policy anywhere nor in the registration services agreement. In actuality members who no longer need their addresses have the option to transfer them or to return them or lease them out. To be clear, are you saying that APNIC will not allow a member to generate an ROA with an ASN not belonging to that member? As to whois registration, I'm pretty sure members can do assignments to their clients with or without a circuit. Can you be more clear on what services will be denied to those who attempt to lease out their addresses? Regards Mike Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device -------- Original message -------- From: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net> Date: 6/8/22 7:13 AM (GMT-05:00) To: Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in>, Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Mike and all, APNIC delegates IP addresses to Members based on their demonstrated need. What Members can do with that address space once it is no longer needed is impacted by policy requirements. I will provide two examples. Example 1: Addresses delegated from the last /8 pool cannot be transferred for a minimum of five years. During that time, if the reason for the original request is no longer valid, the resources must be returned to APNIC. https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#8.0.-IPv4-Transfers https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/resources#4.0.-Resource-License So in this instance, if a Member leases out their IP addresses within five years of receiving the delegation from APNIC, they are clearly not needed for their original declared purpose and must be returned to APNIC. Example 2: For addresses delegated to a Member more than five years ago, if a Member no longer has the need for the address space, APNIC policy says the Member can choose to transfer it to another organization or return it to APNIC. APNIC policy does not have provisions for leasing. So in the second example, APNIC Members leasing addresses would be doing so outside the policy framework and will not receive APNIC services such as whois registration and RPKI/ROA access related to those addresses. This in turn may make it difficult to freely utilise those addresses on the Internet, due to lack of clear authorisation and a reliance on the registered holder (lessor) to assist. Of course, if the addresses being leased were not delegated by APNIC, then the relevant RIR’s policies apply to those addresses. If the community wishes to change APNIC address policy to either include or clarify provisions for leasing, proposals can be submitted to the Policy SIG for community discussion. Thanks Vivek From: Gaurav Kansal <gaurav.kansal(a)nic.in> Date: Wednesday, 8 June 2022 at 1:26 pm To: Karl Kloppenborg <karl(a)rapidwireless.com.au> Cc: raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com>, Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net>, mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: Re: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Karl, Totally agrees on your words. At least APNIC should not promote IPv4 auctions, leases and all other dirty stuff. Why can’t we have a policy in APNIC to not to allow IPV4 auctions/leases and only allow transfers after proper scrutiny. But money can do anything and i am doubtful whether apnic will even agrees on our points. Thanks Gaurav Kansal On 08-Jun-2022, at 08:50, apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net wrote: The fact of the matter is, why are leases and auctions even a thing? If you don’t need the resource anymore, doing the right thing and handing it back allows companies like myself to be able to continue operating and pushes further the move to IPv6. We simply don’t have the funds to participate in auctions and frankly, we shouldn’t have too. It is a failure of NIC’ registrars around the world that they’ve forgone the push to IPv6 and instead made a pay-to-play, everyone for themselves environment where only the wealthy and large carriers can play. The fact that companies like IPv4-Auctions, IPv4-Vault, IPTrading, etc even exist underscore just how disgusting this system has become. APNIC and all the other registrars should be ashamed of themselves. Kind Regards, Karl Kloppenborg. From: Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com> Date: Wednesday, 8 June 2022 at 5:37 am To: Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com>, 'Vivek Nigam' <vivek(a)apnic.net>, 'mailman_apnic-transfers' <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Thank you Mike and Vivek for the points made. Vivek – why is there such a concern with a lease conversation? Some members are unable to perform a transfer due to lack of budgets, so lease might be their only option… Is there a mailing list where we can post about lease? And does the transfer mailing list allow post about selling IPs, since that is directly related to a transfer? From: Mike Burns <mike(a)iptrading.com> Date: Monday, June 6, 2022 at 7:48 AM To: 'Vivek Nigam' <vivek(a)apnic.net>, Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com>, 'mailman_apnic-transfers' <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: RE: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Vivek, There is such a thing as a lease-to-own transfer, which ends up as a transfer. And there are those who might be considering transfer versus lease, and that definitely comports with the Charter for this list, which requires “topics relevant to IPv4 transfers”. Everything you wrote below is true and factual but deftly elides the meaningful point, which is that leasing is not prohibited at APNIC. (Although leased-out addresses would not count towards justifying a new purchase.) If I am wrong, please let us know by telling us what law, policy or contract term with APNIC would be violated by an APNIC resource holder leasing blocks to non-connected customers. And would that subject them to revocation risk? Thanks and regards, Mike Burns IPTrading.com From: Vivek Nigam <vivek(a)apnic.net> Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2022 9:34 PM To: Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com>; mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: /16 Lease Hi Raquel, APNIC policy does not have any provisions for leasing of IP addresses on their own. There was a policy proposal for temporary transfer prop-119 but it did not reach consensus and was withdrawn by the author. https://www.apnic.net/community/policy/proposals/prop-119<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apnic…> APNIC Members can delegate address space to their downstream customers, which are operating networks. Such delegations are non-portable and must be returned to the Member if the downstream customer ceases to receive connectivity from the Member. We have a transfer policy which allows the transfer of unused IPv4 address between APNIC Members as well as other RIR members. For more information, see https://www.apnic.net/transfer<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apnic…> Please note the IPv4 transfers mailing list is only for the discussion of transfers, not leasing. APNIC Transfers Charter: The APNIC Transfer mailing list was created to provide a forum enabling the sources and recipients of IPv4 address transfers, as well as IPv4 brokers, to discuss topics relevant to IPv4 transfers. Hope this information helps. Regards, Vivek From: Raquel Wellington <raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com>> Date: Saturday, 4 June 2022 at 8:49 am To: mailman_apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net<mailto:apnic-transfers@apnic.net>> Subject: [apnic-transfers] /16 Lease Hello all, We have a clean /16 available for lease…. Please let us know if you have any interest 😊 IPv4 Vault LLC Raquel Wellington Asset Recovery Specialist +1 (424) 258-4758 raquel.w(a)ipv4-vault.com<mailto:raquel.w@ipv4-vault.com> _______________________________________________ apnic-transfers - https://mailman.apnic.net/apnic-transfers@apnic.net/ To unsubscribe send an email to apnic-transfers-leave(a)apnic.net [https://email.gov.in/videos/images/75.jpg]<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Famritmaho…>

2 1

Require /18 or lower IP subnets
by Moorthy Baddi 09 Jan '22

09 Jan '22

Hi, We are looking for /18 or lower IP pool. Please do let us know if you any subnet to sell. [cid:image990542.jpg@30E71657.5EC4E2FE]<https://www.yotta.com/> Moorthy Baddi General Manager IT Operations T: +91-22-68689000<tel:+91-22-68689000> | M: +91-9324279550<tel:+91-9324279550> E: mbaddi(a)yotta.com<mailto:mbaddi@yotta.com> | W: www.yotta.com<https://www.yotta.com/> A: Yotta Infrastructure Solutions LLP 5th Floor, Scorpio Building, Hiranandani Gardens, Powai, Mumbai 400076 [cid:image905817.png@47FA4C53.C5EA6C24]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/yotta-infrastructure/> [cid:image684523.png@94E889BF.87ADBB08]<https://www.facebook.com/yottainfrastructure/> [cid:image854185.png@DCCD5699.FF510A50]<https://twitter.com/YottaInfra> [cid:image308976.png@49C7F85D.36E0E0AC]<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOQkF-Og7bgzo6iSmWvDiIQ> [cid:image772149.png@1D095A37.7FEF0A49]<https://bit.ly/3eozsFA> This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the individual or entity to whom it has been addressed, and may contain information that is confidential and/or legally protected. If you are not the intended recipient(s) or have received this message in error, you are not authorized to copy, distribute, or otherwise use this message or its attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and permanently delete this message and any attachments. The contents of this message do not necessarily represent the views or policies of Yotta Infrastructure Solutions LLP or its affiliates / group companies (“Yotta”). Yotta makes no warranty that this e-mail is error or virus free.

7 11

Re: apnic-transfers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 3
by Feras Bakkour 06 Jan '22

06 Jan '22

HelloWe have available APNIC /18 , please contact if still interested. Sincerely M Feras Bakkour CEO 7950 Legacy Dr. Suite # 400Plano, TX 75024, USATel: +1- 972-707-0070Cell: +1-619-362-6004E: Feras(a)maxtel.us www.maxtel.us -------- Original message --------From: apnic-transfers-request(a)apnic.net Date: 06/01/2022 12:02 (GMT+04:00) To: apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net Subject: apnic-transfers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 3 Send apnic-transfers mailing list submissions to apnic-transfers(a)apnic.netTo subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject orbody 'help' to apnic-transfers-request(a)apnic.netYou can reach the person managing the list at apnic-transfers-owner(a)apnic.netWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of apnic-transfers digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: FW: Require /18 or lower IP subnets (Michael B. Williams)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2022 19:01:40 +1100From: "Michael B. Williams" <Michael.Williams(a)glexia.com>Subject: [apnic-transfers] Re: FW: Require /18 or lower IP subnetsTo: "Hazan, Jack" <jhazan(a)hilcoglobal.com>Cc: Moorthy Baddi via apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net>Message-ID: <CAGj=18Gi9QMgBroP16OCZo13Zs92oi1gdRWDSkCMRSw+LwBBRw(a)mail.gmail.com>Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="000000000000754a3b05d4e548f6"All -I am receiving a SSL expiration issue when attempting to visit this site.On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 05:49 Hazan, Jack <jhazan(a)hilcoglobal.com> wrote:> Thanks for reaching out. Have you visited our platform.> https://auctions.ipv4.global/ We have /16s through /24 all available> online. Registration is straightforward, as is the purchasing process.> Register and take a look at what is available. If you have questions about> process, let us know. Thanks.>>>>>> *Jack Hazan* | Executive Vice President>> <https://www.hilcostreambank.com/>>>>> *t:* 212.610.5663 | *m:* 646.388.1361>> *email:* jhazan(a)hilcoglobal.com>> *web: *https://ipv4.global/>> *twitter: *twitter.com/ipv4g>>>> *From:* Moorthy Baddi via apnic-transfers <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 5, 2022 7:11 AM> *To:* 'apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net' <apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net>> *Subject:* [apnic-transfers] Require /18 or lower IP subnets>>>> *This message is from an EXTERNAL SENDER - be CAUTIOUS, particularly with> links and attachments.*>>>> Hi,>>>> We are looking for /18 or lower IP pool.>>>> Please do let us know if you any subnet to sell.>>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.yotta…>>> *Moorthy Baddi***>> *General Manager*>> *IT Operations*>> *T:* *+91-22-68689000* <+91-22-68689000>>> |>> *M:* *+91-9324279550* <+91-9324279550>>> *E:* *mbaddi(a)yotta.com* <mbaddi(a)yotta.com>>> |>> *W:** www.yotta.com*> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.yotta…>>> *A: *>> Yotta Infrastructure Solutions LLP> 5th Floor, Scorpio Building, Hiranandani Gardens, Powai,> Mumbai 400076>>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linke…>>>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.faceb…>>>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.c…>>>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtu…>>>> <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2F…>>> This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the> individual or entity to whom it has been addressed, and may contain> information that is confidential and/or legally protected. If you are not> the intended recipient(s) or have received this message in error, you are> not authorized to copy, distribute, or otherwise use this message or its> attachments. Please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and> permanently delete this message and any attachments. The contents of this> message do not necessarily represent the views or policies of Yotta> Infrastructure Solutions LLP or its affiliates / group companies (“Yotta”).> Yotta makes no warranty that this e-mail is error or virus free.> _______________________________________________> apnic-transfers mailing list -- apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net> To unsubscribe send an email to apnic-transfers-leave(a)apnic.net>-- Sent from Gmail Mobile-------------- next part --------------A message part incompatible with plain text digests has been removed ...Name: not availableType: text/htmlSize: 16268 bytesDesc: not available-------------- next part --------------A message part incompatible with plain text digests has been removed ...Name: image002.jpgType: image/jpegSize: 2426 bytesDesc: not available-------------- next part --------------A message part incompatible with plain text digests has been removed ...Name: image001.pngType: image/pngSize: 5278 bytesDesc: not available-------------- next part --------------A message part incompatible with plain text digests has been removed ...Name: image005.pngType: image/pngSize: 675 bytesDesc: not available-------------- next part --------------A message part incompatible with plain text digests has been removed ...Name: image003.pngType: image/pngSize: 710 bytesDesc: not available-------------- next part --------------A message part incompatible with plain text digests has been removed ...Name: image004.pngType: image/pngSize: 626 bytesDesc: not available-------------- next part --------------A message part incompatible with plain text digests has been removed ...Name: image772149.pngType: image/pngSize: 90172 bytesDesc: not available-------------- next part --------------A message part incompatible with plain text digests has been removed ...Name: image006.pngType: image/pngSize: 724 bytesDesc: not available------------------------------Subject: Digest Footer_______________________________________________apnic-transfers mailing list -- apnic-transfers(a)apnic.netTo unsubscribe send an email to apnic-transfers-leave(a)apnic.net------------------------------End of apnic-transfers Digest, Vol 51, Issue 3**********************************************

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Re: [apnic-transfers] Welcome to the "apnic-transfers" mailing list (Digest mode)
by Jeff Koh 16 Sep '21

16 Sep '21

Hi, May I know where can I buy public IP address. Thank you. Regards, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: apnic-transfers-bounces(a)apnic.net <apnic-transfers-bounces(a)apnic.net> On Behalf Of apnic-transfers-request(a)apnic.net Sent: Tuesday, 14 September 2021 1:22 pm To: jeff(a)kacific.com Subject: Welcome to the "apnic-transfers" mailing list (Digest mode) Welcome to the apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net mailing list! Feel free to discuss anything on IPv4 address transfers here. If you have some spare addresses, or if you need some, or if you know someone else need or have some, or if you're not clear about APNIC's transfer policy, please share it here. APNIC Transfers list moderator To post to this list, send your email to: apnic-transfers(a)apnic.net General information about the mailing list is at: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mailman.apnic.net_mai lman_listinfo_apnic-2Dtransfers&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A _CdpgnVfiiMM&r=k4CL8JXEDBO05_E_PWb2Ug&m=57130SHRM3UPdzAaC1a2dWVH_51iQTKiRc BMaX3Qgpo&s=Y_bsGu7Ex8ydneesBFuFH-s3Sl4wjzMT7wxde4AjlvA&e= If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your subscription page at: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mailman.apnic.net_mai lman_options_apnic-2Dtransfers_jeff-2540kacific.com&d=DwICAg&c=euGZstcaTDl lvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=k4CL8JXEDBO05_E_PWb2Ug&m=57130SHRM3UPdz AaC1a2dWVH_51iQTKiRcBMaX3Qgpo&s=2S6bj4KqC2QdXDlria85k00A-ZHiZtec0miWT5ouyG A&e= You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: apnic-transfers-request(a)apnic.net with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: Qweasdzxc99 Normally, Mailman will remind you of your https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__apnic.net&d=DwICAg&c=e uGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=k4CL8JXEDBO05_E_PWb2Ug&m=5713 0SHRM3UPdzAaC1a2dWVH_51iQTKiRcBMaX3Qgpo&s=zZO92qYv2QsrSF9i_fKMkbk_IE_-bC2e F8VTpHjrHqk&e= mailing list passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on your options page that will email your current password to you.

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Regarding IPv4 allocation
by sazzad.ahmed＠stl-bd.net 01 Apr '21

01 Apr '21

Dear Team, We are looking for APNIC IP address(IPv4) /19 and /21. If you have stock please send us your quotation asap. Best regard, Sazzad Ahmed Asst. Network and System Admin Sajid Trading | Network Operation Center mobile: +8801614568333 email: sazzad.ahmed(a)stl-bd.net skype: sazzad.ahmed19

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/23 IP address
by Mohammad Nabi Durrani 22 Mar '21

22 Mar '21

1 0

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