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Re: [sig-policy] Another prop-050 backdoor



Skeeve,

While its an interesting effect, that may or may not happen, I'm probably going to moot that the EC will consider this in their evaluation of the policy's impact on APNIC. (and IMHO if you can make it cheaper for yourself, good for you!)

Keep in mind that at APNIC27 the EC stated they had commissioned KPMG to review the fees policy and the report of said review can be found here: http://www.apnic.net/ec/ec-fees-report.pdf

The general recommendations is for a continuous fee model based on holdings. While this doesn't totally remove the scenario you pose it minimises it. Further, and this is my opinion only, do you think that APNIC wouldn't assert a 'transfer fee' to cover such losses? (call it stamp duty if you like).

Building on that, with the EC in charge of the fees, do you think long term that APNIC would hold to a tiered membership model? Several people at several times have used the term 'titles office'. Interesting concept. When thinking about that - how many 'titles offices' are you a member of??

Anyway I think for this policy - I would leave the financial concerns/ impact for the EC to deal with.

Terry

On 09/03/2009, at 11:15 AM, Skeeve Stevens wrote:

Hey all,

Background:

This backdoor is not to gain more address space to sell, but to avoid membership fees, which if used widely, would cripple APNIC.

Scenario:

I am a member (MEMBER-A) with a /18 (Medium) my anniversary is in January. I setup another company and register them as an APNIC member – AU $792. I do this on July 1 to keep them separate (MEMBER-B)

In October... MEMBER-A transfers his /18 to MEMBER-B.
MEMBER-A gets letter from APNIC for membership renewal for associate membership – AU$792
MEMBER-A pays bill.

MEMBER-B transfers /18 back to MEMBER-A

MEMBER-B gets its invoice in May, and it is again an associate member.

Members have avoided paying AU$6338 in member fees... and obviously this works at any level, and if you want to get more complicated, can easily be hidden through multiple members which are owned by the same company, moving to a new member each year. Paying 5 * AU$792 is better than paying AU$25,352.


Simply, prop-050 cannot be allowed to come into being as it is. To do so would cause untold damage to APNIC. With this backdoor, and the others, the abuse of this proposal would be far beyond even what we have come up with here so far.

I hope Phil’s revised proposal puts the blocks on all the abuse.

--
Skeeve Stevens, CEO/Technical Director
eintellego Pty Ltd - The Networking Specialists
skeeve@eintellego.net / www.eintellego.net
Phone: 1300 753 383, Fax: (+612) 8572 9954
Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 / skype://skeeve
--
NOC, NOC, who's there?

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