Re: [hostmaster-staff] RE: Transfer of membership between APNIC andNIRs

[John Tran <john@apnic.net>]

Hi Izumi-san and all,

On Mon, 24 Jun 2002, Izumi Okutani wrote:

> Hi Son and all,
> 
> 
> > > According to this statement, we must transfer the address to APNIC for
> > > such a case?
> > 
> > Yes, this is correct because APNIC is based on how many Ip address an 
> > organisation is holding to determine the size of the membership category 
> > in the next renewal of membership.
> Umm, I see.
> 
> This was the case before this policy was introduced, so we feel that
> it may be fair to give the organization a choice whether to continue
> the current status or transfer all the address to APNIC. What do you
> think about it?

This is fine but then the organisation has to pay two memberships which might 
cost more than just one membership. It is totally up to the organisation 
concern. This is also apply for APNIC transfer to NIRs but it is important 
to note that the organisation can only obtain resources from one source 
otherwise it might be too complicate to evaluate their requests.

Son

> 
> As you know, we accepted this case as they had independent networks
> with seperate global ASNs.
> 
> We are looking forward to hear your opinion.
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> Izumi
> 
> 
> From: John Tran <john@apnic.net>
> Subject: Re: [hostmaster-staff] RE: Transfer of membership between APNIC and
>  NIRs
> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 20:19:35 +1000 (EST)
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Izumi-san and all,
> > 
> > 
> > > Dear Paul, Chia-Nan and all,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > We feel that this policy is desirable in both fee structure and
> > > address management perspective and appreciate the effort to put it
> > > into document.
> > > 
> > > JPNIC has two questions regarding TWNIC's proposal.
> > > 
> > > From: "Chia-Nan Hsieh" <hsieh@twnic.net.tw>
> > > Subject: RE: Transfer of membership between APNIC and NIRs
> > > Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 16:21:40 +0800
> > > 
> > > > Dear Paul and all,
> > > > 
> > > > TWNIC is very pleased to see the release of this new policy.
> > > > It certainly answers many questions and makes clear the effects of the
> > > > membership transfer between NIR and APNIC. 
> > > > 
> > > > We agree with all the proposed policies and would like to complement a
> > > > few more.
> > > > 
> > > > Part III 
> > > > 
> > > > 1. An ISP can be a member of the NIR and APNIC at the same time. But the
> > > > ISP can request address spaces from only one source, i.e. the NIR OR
> > > > APNIC.
> > > > 
> > > > 2. Upon requesting new address space from the NIR, the ISP's address
> > > > space obtained from APNIC should be transferred to the NIR's management
> > > > and vice versa. (This is specially for current ISPs that hold address
> > > > space from both the NIR and APNIC.)
> > > We have a case where an organization had received address space in the
> > > past and now requesting address space from APNIC.
> > > 
> > > According to this statement, we must transfer the address to APNIC for
> > > such a case?
> > 
> > Yes, this is correct because APNIC is based on how many Ip address an 
> > organisation is holding to determine the size of the membership category 
> > in the next renewal of membership.
> >  
> > >  
> > > > 3. APNIC should provide latest membership list to the NIR (by email or
> > > > posting on the website), sorted by country. When the NIR receive a new
> > > > membership application, the NIR should check if the ISP is a member of
> > > > APNIC. When APNIC receive a new membership application from NIR located
> > > > countries, APNIC should notify the NIR to see if the ISP is a member of
> > > > APNIC. 
> > > > 
> > > > 4. At the occurrence of membership transfer, the NIR and APNIC should
> > > > refund the membership fee based on the portion of unused membership.
> > > We feel that the membership fee issue is solved by charging from one
> > > IR in the future.
> > 
> > I think this is a good idea because the organisation is still using IP
> > address and the new IR does not charge for this address until next year
> > so we don't need to refund the membership fee (this is based on APNIC model)
> > 
> > > 
> > > What could be the possible problems caused by not giving the refund?
> > 
> > You will get alot of unhappy members :).
> > 
> > son
> > > 
> > > We think it is a good idea to add the other two statements suggested
> > > by TWNIC.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Best Regards,
> > > 
> > > Izumi Okutani
> > > JPNIC
> > > 
> > >  
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > TWNIC IP Team
> > > > 
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net 
> > > > > [mailto:owner-nir-discuss@lists.apnic.net] On Behalf Of Paul Wilson
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 4:01 PM
> > > > > To: nir-discuss@apnic.net
> > > > > Subject: Transfer of membership between APNIC and NIRs
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Dear all,
> > > > > 
> > > > > After discussions with KRNIC about a specific case in Korea, 
> > > > > it has been
> > > > > necessary to develop a clearer policy for the transfer of members
> > > > > between APNIC and an NIR.  This policy is for cases where an 
> > > > > ISP member
> > > > > of APNIC wishes to join the NIR, and where an ISP member of an NIR
> > > > > wishes to join APNIC.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The following basic policy structure has been developed, and was
> > > > > approved by the APNIC EC during its meeting last month (this urgent
> > > > > approval was requested by me so that the KRNIC situation could be
> > > > > resolved).  There may be some further details to be finalised or
> > > > > clarified, so I would like your feedback and comments.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Although it is proposed to apply this policy to at least one specific
> > > > > case before the next APNIC member meeting, I suggest that 
> > > > > this should be
> > > > > discussed at the next NIR meeting, so that it can be formally endorsed
> > > > > by that meeting, and approved by the APNIC membership as appropriate.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Paul.
> > > > > 
> > > > > ---
> > > > > 
> > > > > Policy for Transfer of Membership betwwen APNIC and NIRs
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Part 1 - Transfer of Membership from APNIC to NIR
> > > > > 
> > > > > In the case of an ISP which transfers membership from APNIC to an NIR,
> > > > > the following conditions should apply:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1. APNIC should freely allow member ISPs to join NIRs in their country
> > > > > and to receive all address registry services from the NIR (including
> > > > > resource allocation and registration), wherever this is preferred.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2. In these cases, management responsibility for the ISP's 
> > > > > address space
> > > > > and registration records will be transferred from APNIC to 
> > > > > the NIR.  The
> > > > > ISP will no longer receive any service from APNIC in relation to the
> > > > > address space received from APNIC.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 3. The existing address space holdings of the ISP will be 
> > > > > transferred to
> > > > > the NIR's management, and will therefore contribute to the 
> > > > > assessment of
> > > > > the NIR's membership category.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 4. APNIC will impose no per-address fee for the transfer, and 
> > > > > no further
> > > > > charges on the ISP in relation to Internet resources previously
> > > > > allocated to that ISP.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Part 2 - Transfer of Membership from NIR to APNIC
> > > > > 
> > > > > In the case of an ISP which transfers membership from an NIR to APNIC
> > > > > and to receive services from APNIC, the following conditions should
> > > > > apply:
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1. NIRs should freely allow member ISPs to join APNIC and to 
> > > > > receive all
> > > > > address registry services from APNIC (including resource 
> > > > > allocation and
> > > > > registration), wherever this is preferred.  
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2. Management responsibility for the ISP's address space and
> > > > > registration records will be transferred from the NIR to 
> > > > > APNIC.  The ISP
> > > > > will no longer receive any service from the NIR in relation to the
> > > > > address space received from the NIR.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 3. The ISP's APNIC membership tier will be assessed on the 
> > > > > basis of all
> > > > > address space managed by APNIC, that is, including both the 
> > > > > transferred
> > > > > address space, and any address space received from APNIC.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 4. The NIR will receive an allocation of address space from 
> > > > > APNIC which
> > > > > is equal in size to the transferred address space, and no per-address
> > > > > fees will be charged.  The address space will be allocated at the time
> > > > > of the next NIR request to APNIC, and must be justified by the NIR in
> > > > > the normal way.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 5. The NIR should impose no further charges on the ISP in relation to
> > > > > Internet resources previously allocated to that ISP.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > > > __________
> > > > > Paul Wilson, Director-General, APNIC                      
> > > > > <dg@apnic.net>
> > > > > http://www.apnic.net                            ph/fx +61 7 
> > > > > 3858 3100/99
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
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> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
>